487 | Parenting Teen Boys with Brooke McGlothlin (Jessica Smartt)
Show Notes:
In this episode Jessica and Brooke talk teen boys -- when to discipline, when to give them freedom, when and how to pray for them. It's an encouraging and helpful episode!
About Brooke
Brooke McGlothlin is the original founder and former leader of Million Praying Moms, and author of 8 books including her latest, Praying for Teen Boys: Partner with God for the Heart of Your Son. She serves as Client Services Director at Blue Ridge Women’s Center, a nonprofit ministry assisting women in crisis pregnancy. A wife of 23 years, and mom to two young men ages 18 and 20, Brooke makes her home in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Appalachia.
About Jessica
Jessica is a wife, homeschool mom of three, author, and blogger. She lives in sunny North Carolina on a big family farm with chickens, goats, cousins, and lots of mud.
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Show Transcript:
Jessica Smartt Hey, everybody! Welcome to The Homeschool Solutions Show. My name is Jessica Smartt and I'm one of the many hosts here on the podcast. I'm also the author of Memory Making Mom and Let Them Be Kids, and the creator and founder of Homeschool Bootcamp. Each week we bring in encouraging conversation from this busy and blessed journey of educating our children at home. While the title is Homeschool Solutions, of course, we don't pretend to have the answer to every question. It's our hope that this podcast will point you to Jesus Christ, that you'll seek his counsel as you train your kids in the way they should go.
Jessica Smartt Hi, everybody. This is Jessica Smartt, and I am so excited to be with you today. I have the honor and privilege of speaking with one of my good friends, Brooke McGlothlin. And I know you guys are just gonna absolutely love this conversation. Quick heads up: obviously, if you haven't grabbed Let Them Be Kids, this is literally the perfect time—in the middle of the summer—to read that, so head on over to Amazon. And I'd love to hear if you like it. You can always reach out to me. I'm over at Instagram at Jessica.Smartt. So let's hop into our conversation with Brooke. Brooke is, as I said, a friend of mine, I've learned a lot from her. She's the founder of Million Praying Moms, which she'll tell us how we can find her over on Instagram. She's always sharing really encouraging things. And also the author of most recently, Praying for Teen Boys. And so I'm just super excited to talk about raising teen boys because this is... I'm heading into this and desperate for anybody that knows anything to tell me anything. And I know if you guys are in that stage, you know exactly what I mean. So Brooke, thank you so much for joining me.
Brooke McGlothlin I'm so glad to be here, Jessica. This is so fun. You know, I love talking about this subject, but I really, really love talking about it with friends. So this is going to be great fun. Thank you for having me.
Jessica Smartt Amazing. Yeah, so in case somebody's not familiar, tell us briefly about your family and what you are up to.
Brooke McGlothlin Yeah, absolutely. So I have been married to my husband, Cory, for... Let's see, we just celebrated 23 years, just a few days ago, so that's really cool. I always tell people I actually have had a crush on him since the third grade, which is kind of a fun story. We didn't start dating until I was in college, but yeah, I've long had my heart set on that man. And so that's really fun. We have two boys. The book is Praying for Teen Boys, but I'm happy to tell you that my oldest son just turned 20 yesterday. So I am now approaching the subject as someone who has actually survived the teenage years for one child.
Jessica Smartt You have prayed someone through the teen years.
Brooke McGlothlin Yes, exactly. I'm so excited about that. So he's 20 and he's in college and then I do still have one in the home who just turned 18 and he is getting ready to be a senior in high school. And yeah, so I have all boys in my home. We do have one female dog in the house, but every other even animal kingdom member of our house is male. And so that's been a fun thing for me. I actually prayed and asked the Lord to give us boys before I was even married to my husband. I wanted the opportunity to raise boys who were different. I wanted to raise boys who were kingdom-minded and who loved the Lord. And I very naively thought in the beginning days that I could do that all by myself—that like, that wasn't that hard. Like how hard could it be? And now all the moms that are listening are laughing really hard because they know how crazy and self-righteous that is. It didn't take me long to realize how desperate I was for the Lord to intervene and that, you know, being able to raise godly men is really not about being able to pull yourself up by your bootstraps. It's literally about partnering with God for the hearts of our sons. And so that's what the book is really about. It's kind of a testimony, if you will, to everything that the Lord has taught me about praying for my kids. I love to pray scripture for my kids. And it is about how God taught me to partner with him instead of trying to control everything myself. You mentioned I am the founder of Million Praying Moms and that's just a wonderful ministry that God gave me that has allowed me to teach women that prayer is not a last resort. It is the first and best response to the challenges of motherhood—really the challenges of life, the challenges of womanhood, of every part of our lives. It isn't the last thing that we do. It's actually the most proactive first thing that we can possibly do. So that's a little bit about me. I live in Southwestern Virginia, down in the mountains of Southwestern, Virginia, not too far from you actually. And I don't know why we don't see each other more often, but yeah, I love being from this part of Appalachia and the rich cultural history that we have here.
Jessica Smartt Yeah, thank you. I love that. And Brooke and I are in a mastermind together. We have been for several years. And Brooke, you've told me... I don't remember how many years you homeschooled, but you did for quite some time, and then God kind of called you out of that. And your kids are, I believe, in a local public school, if I'm correct. But I remember you telling me something like, "I have a homeschool mom's heart." And I hear that come out in how you talk about your teens and how you're really involved in discipling them. There's a million and one questions, but I think I'll just start here kind of as a launching point off of what you said about control. So before we get into the specific prayer part, I just would love to kind of pick your brain because that's something we're approaching as we record this. My teens are 16 and... my teen boys—16 and 14, and there is just this shift that kind of occurs where... And it's tricky. I would love to just hear you speak to this because like when they're eight, it's like, "No, you will not do this. I will take that away from you. I will make you." And then somehow you end up with a 22 year old where it's, like, "Hey mom, here's what I'm doing. Take it or leave it." So that messy middle of like, you still have some control over them, but you're giving them ownership into their own lives. How has that been difficult for you? What are some like tools that are... I don't know, how did you get through that? Like how do we do that?
Brooke McGlothlin Yeah, it is a very real thing, it really is. So I will confess that needing to let go of control of my boys has probably been the hardest part about them getting to the end of the teenage years, and giving them permission to fail here and there is really hard. That's kind of what you're doing. When you let go off control, you're saying, "Okay, go take some steps on your own." And when they were little and they were like literally taking their physically, you know, first steps, the consequences of them falling were pretty minimal, right? Like they were usually on a soft surface or you could catch them really quickly, and they weren't falling that far to the ground if they were toddlers. So they were unlikely to get hurt. When they're older, the consequences are much, much bigger and farther reaching, and really can impact their future in significant ways. And so for me, that was really, really hard. And along with that comes this thing where when they're little (like you said, when they are eight, nine, or whatever), physically, for most of us, unless you have children that are really big on their own, which I know does exist. But when they're that age, physically, you can kind of still make them do what you want them to do, because you're still bigger than them. So there's a physical dominance that you still have, although that changes very quickly, probably around that age, or begins to change. Now my boys can pick me up and put me where they want me to be, and do frequently. Like it does change. That the physicality, like there is a pronounced lack of control. And I think you probably start to see it most when they get their driver's license and you just have to let go in certain things. But what has helped me in this particular stage is to know that that's completely normal. And one of the things I didn't mention early on, Jessica, is that educationally, I have a degree in psychology and a master's in counseling. And I draw a lot of strength from some of those studies that tell me that this process called differentiation, you know, like where you've given your kids this very strong foundation—and hopefully most of us have, I know everyone listening is dedicated to that and trying their best to provide that strong foundation for their kids—but there has to be a leaping off point at some point, and it isn't abnormal for that to happen. And it's different with girls than boys, especially in the mother-son relationships. So one of the things that I've seen is that, in my boys as they've gotten older, is that sometimes, especially with my guy that's in college, I've learned that he calls me for certain reasons and he calls his dad for certain other reasons. In some ways, especially as boys, they will begin to identify more with their dad than they do you. And it should be that way. It should be that way. Unless they have a horrible fathering situation, that is not something you want to prevent. You want them to really begin to identify with their father and learn from him in a different way. Culturally speaking, and I don't know the specific details on this, but I wanna say like olden days, whenever that was, generically speaking, there was a time when boys really kind of became the... You know, they were under their mother's apron strings when they were little, and then the fathers really took control of their teaching and learning at some point. And we do that a lot less in today's culture, but there's something right and good and true about that—that while it's hard as a mom to let go... I always say, you know, my role as a mom was to hold on so, so tightly, and then to have to be forcefully let go. You have to let it go. And if you don't, then when they fail, it's gonna be worse. And I do intentionally use the word "when" they failed because they're going to. And there's a certain protection about failing in your home, when they're still under... You know, when they're still under your roof there's a protection and a goodness about that—that you can come alongside them. But once they're gone, that becomes much more difficult. It doesn't mean that you can't still guide and protect them. But it is a weird and awkward stage. I will tell you, I will agree with that. It's a hard stage, but it's not a wrong stage. And I think if we as mothers in particular—maybe as fathers too, but specifically as mothers—can wrap our minds around the idea that our kids becoming their own people and having the freedom to make some mistakes (I'm not saying let them go wild, but begin to learn some things the hard way), that that is actually the way it's supposed to be—it's kind of the way God designed it and that it's not wrong—then I think we'll be able to make some more peace with it.
Jessica Smartt Yeah, that's awesome. There is so much in what you just said. It's hard to hear. Like some of it I'm like, "No!" But I guess I have two follow-up questions. One is, I know it is a spectrum. Like when we say "teens," parenting a 13-year-old's gonna look so much different than an 18-year old. So we all understand that, but obviously, you're not stepping out and relinquishing all your authorities, so can you speak to kind of maybe the flip side of what does it look like sometimes to draw a hard line? And I don't know if you can think of an exact example or if there are certain areas that you are like, no I'm gonna... You know what I mean? Like how does that look like for you to do that angle of parenting?
Brooke McGlothlin Yeah, it definitely does change. You know, you've got your tweens, your early teens, and then, you know, into the season that we're in right now, which is on the tail end of the teens. It's definitely changes. Like, our older son right now is in what I would call a really awkward stage. Like he's not awkward, that's not I mean. What I mean is that he's been basically living on his own since four days after high school graduation. He is home with us this summer, but he's out of school for two years. He's gonna be a junior in college, and he has been gone every summer since he graduated from high school doing... He's a baseball player. So he's done collegiate baseball all summer in North Carolina. And so not even in the same state as us. And so he's been home for, you know, little bits of time, a month at the end of the summer or a few weeks for Christmas break or whatever, but this is the first summer that he has actually lived with us for any length of time since he graduated from high school. So we love it. We're thrilled to have him home. He's transferring to a different school in the fall. And we've enjoyed every second of it, but it's weird because he is quite capable of doing many things on his own. Like from the really minor things like doing his own dishes, cooking his own meals, doing his own laundry—he can do all of that on his own and has been doing all of his own and doing a good job of it on his for two years now. But he's been doing it on our dime, right? Like he is doing things on his own and that's great, but we're paying for it. And so it's this weird in between place where he still needs us but he doesn't want to need us, and it just makes for a weird kind of situation. So with backstory in mind, we had a situation where he got in trouble for something like right after high school. It was benign. It was not like this... You know, he didn't get in trouble with the law. It wasn't anything like that. I'll protect his confidentiality a little bit and not tell you exactly what it was. But it wasn't a big deal, but it was enough that we needed to address it. And so we did, and we told him that if it happened again, there would be more substantial consequences to it. Well, two years later, it happened again. And so, we found ourselves in this situation where we were like, okay, what do we do? Because we had really hoped... On the one hand, we were kind of bluffing, hoping that... I don't mean that in a bad way, but we were trying to give him a consequence that was bad enough that it would deter him from doing it again. And it didn't. And so we found ourselves in this situation like, okay, what are we gonna do? Are we gonna do what we said we were gonna do? Because it's gonna hurt him. Or are we going to let it go and teach him a lesson that says "you can do whatever you wanna do and get away with it?" And so, we ended up sticking with our word and like you said, drawing a hard and fast line and saying, "You did what we asked you not to do again." And again, in the grand scheme of things, he's not selling drugs. You know, it's not that horrible of a thing that he did, but it's something that we care very much about and we want him to learn this lesson. And so my husband and I decided, I think we really have to stick to what we said we were going to do because he's not learning the lesson and so we have to help him learn the lesson. And in this case, you know, he's 20. He just turned 20 yesterday, actually. He is 20 years old. He has got to start making man decisions, right? There's really no more room for boy decisions anymore. And so we decided we had to do that for him. And it's for him. It's not to be against him, it's to be for him, and those are the conversations that we've had to have with him is, "We are for you," because he didn't like it. He didn't like that we held fast to what we said we were gonna do. And of course he didn't but we had to do it anyways because we are for him. And so I think you can take that and apply it to really any age. Our response to the things that our boys have done over the years, even when they were younger teens—to push the limits, do things that we have told them not to, disobey, get in trouble at school every once in a while or something—the first thing that we've done is pray and ask the Lord, "What do we do here? What is our response?" The second thing that we've done is assure them, "There is nothing you could ever do to make us not love you. Nothing. There is nothing. We might not like you all the time, and we might not like the decisions that you make all the time, but there's nothing that you can do to make us not love you. That creates a safety for them that I think is really important. And then we have tried to discern what is the right response, and there have been times when we have felt like we could let things go, and then there have been other times when we really just sensed the Lord saying, "Let's pull in the reins here, like let's actually make an example of this particular thing so that they will know not to do it again. So that it'll hurt bad enough that they'll know not do it it again." Because the consequences are gonna be way easier to manage when they're in your home than they are when they are outside of your home. So I think discernment and prayer are such an important part of being able to know, as you said, "Where do we draw the line?" How do we even know where the line is, and then how do we work that out in our boys for their benefit?
Jessica Smartt That's really helpful, I think, to share that. I appreciate you sharing all of that, and I love those principles. And the last one that you touched on—I don't want to gloss over prayer because I've just seen in my own life recently, like specific answers to things. And I really do feel like God loves and honors those prayers of like, "I'm praying in a desperate place for wisdom." I think he loves to answer those prayers. So besides that—and I'm not minimizing that, but I'd like to get to that towards the end of our conversation—what are some ways that moms can leverage... What can we do? Like we can't make them, and you're right, it does kind of tilt towards the father rightfully, but what can we? Like what are we in their lives to do? And what in your experience of raising teens has been the most effective thing you've done or something that's been really effective as a mom in that role during that season?
Brooke McGlothlin Yeah, so I think early on in a child's life, in a son's life... I'm thinking specifically of when we first had "the talk" with our kids, you know, like when we first talked to them about sexuality and God's plan for that and all of that. I know a lot of moms who just hand that over to the dad. Like if you have boys in your home, then they just hand it over to the dad and ask him to do it. And I don't want to criticize moms who feel strongly about that because there's any number of reasons why that actually might be a good fit in your family, so don't hear me saying that's wrong, but we decided to approach it a bit differently and I'm so glad we did. We did it as a family around the breakfast table and my husband led the discussion about it but I felt like it was really important for me to be there as a part of it so that they could understand from the very beginning that there was no topic that was off limits for me. That no matter how awkward the conversation might be, no matter much we might not want to talk about certain things with our boys, I wanted to set the tone as early as possible that they can come to me for anything. Absolutely anything. There was nothing off limits and so that has served us really well in our family. I have one child who's a big talker. I have another one that I feel like I have to pull things out of him tooth and nail. All of our kids are different. But I've learned that establishing myself early on as a safe place for them, because let's face it, sometimes the conversations between dads and sons can get really heated. There's lots of testosterone happening—you know, in those larger conversations, especially if there's something that's been done wrong or, you know, if they're angry or whatever—and sometimes our kids just need a safe place. And I'm not saying a dad can't be a safe place, but I do think that a mom should also be a safe place for her boys to be able to come when they need help. And so establishing that kind of relationship with them, and then just following through on it. So there have been times when my boys have come to me with conversations that I was like, oh, I don't wanna do this. I don't wanna talk about this with you. I don't know how to have this conversation with you or whatever, but they've come to me over those things and that in and of itself is huge. Like it's not a small thing that my children have come me with hard conversations over the years. I did not have as many hard conversations, I did bring as many hard conversations to my parents, and I had wonderful parents. I did not bring as many hard conversations to them as my kids have brought to me. And I think it's because we did the work of relationship early on. And I'm not saying that our relationship has been perfect over the years. It has certainly not been. I have one child that I get along with better than the other, and I think it's just because of our personalities that, you know, the other child—we have to work a little bit harder at it. But the love and the trust and the safety is there because we started with it. And it has served us really, really well as we've gone through the teenage and now, you know, walking into the young adult years. So that's something that I think moms can be. And none of this excludes dad, but I also think that moms have this beautiful place of interceding for their kids in prayer that is just... Like sometimes, and I don't wanna be, you know, paint people into a corner, but I think sometimes God gives moms discernment about their families. We spend a good amount of time with our kids growing up, especially if we're homeschoolers. We're the ones that see our kids day in and day out. And when we ask God to give us discernment for our kids, to show us what they need, then along with that comes the privilege of being able to pray into those things. And that's just a wonderful spot that a mom can live as well, as she's raising her kids.
Jessica SmarttI love that and I totally agree. Just literally this week we were discussing something with one of my sons and my husband, basically his response was, "You have great gut instincts with our kids." He's like, "You can see what's..." And I haven't really articulated that before, but what you just said I just think is 100% percent right. And I've seen it in a lot of moms manifest in anxiety, and they want to tell themselves like, "Oh, don't be nervous. I..." But I think that's a prompt of A, you are seeing something. That is your gut speaking and saying, "There's something there and it's a prompt, like you just said, to pray. So the book is awesome, super encouraging. Give us an example of how to pray for our boys. What's something in the book that you really loved that you just would like to share and bless our readers with today?
Brooke McGlothlin Yeah, absolutely. So one of my favorite things... There's two chapters that are kind of my favorites. The first is that we ask the Lord to give our boys wisdom. And the reason that this is one of favorite things is that I kind of think that beyond salvation, like right after salvation, one of the most important things that our boys can get is wisdom. I have told my boys since they were little that there are basically two types of men—that the Bible defines them as a wise man or a foolish man. The wise man fears the Lord and follows him all of his days. The foolish man says in his heart, "There is no God and does whatever he wants all of his days." And there are consequences to both ways of living life. And so, for years now, I have said to them when they're making decisions, "What kind of man do you wanna be? In this decision, what kind man do wanna be?" And I'm not just talking about now that they're 18 and 20, but I started referring to my boys as men when they were little. I would say, "You're a man. Let's do this," you know, that kind of thing. And so I would ask them, "What kind of man do you want to be in this particular circumstance?" And I think that that has served us pretty well. I'm not saying they've never chosen to be a foolish man, but I think it has helped to lay a foundation of, like, you have a choice. Every single time you open your mouth, every single time you act on something, you have a choice to either be the wise man or the foolish man. And what the Bible tells us about that is that wisdom is actually crying out loud for our boys on the streets, from the high places of the city. Wisdom is literally crying out for them, saying, "Come in, come in. This is the way." The problem is that so is foolishness. The scriptures tell us in Proverbs that the foolish woman (it personifies it as a woman) is also crying out to our sons saying, "Come in, come in. Walk this way." And so my prayer in terms of wisdom for my boys is that, you know, I believe that God's word tells us that wisdom can be seen, it can be heard, it's recognizable. It's out there, it's not hidden. God's wisdom is not hidden from our boys. But so I've prayed that God would give them eyes to see it, and that he would give them a heart to want to walk in it, a heart choose it, because just because you can see it doesn't mean that you're gonna do it. So that has been a huge prayer for me when it comes to wisdom and probably is my very favorite chapter in the book—Lord, let him hear wisdom.
Jessica Smartt That's so good, and I mean, you guys, isn't she just so encouraging, just tons of wisdom coming from you, Brooke. And I love the hope and promise in what you're saying, that it can feel overwhelming, but we're not alone, and the Lord is with us and He will help us in this. It is hard, but he's here and he promises to be with us and our boys. We have just a few minutes left and I'm going to do something kind of unusual. I've never really done this, but you did found Million Praying Moms. So, Brooke, as we end, I'm wondering, would you just pray for the boys right now? There are moms listening to this, dads listening to this, and what a culture we are raising these young men in. And you nailed it with the "foolishness is yelling for them," right? That's pretty apt for today. So would you just pray a blessing over these boys in our lives?
Brooke McGlothlin Yeah, I would love to. If it's okay with you, Jessica, I'm just gonna pray the wisdom prayers from the book. Each chapter is equipped with 10 scripture-inspired prayers pertaining to that topic. So I'm just gonna pray through the wisdom ones if that's okay you, and we'll pray and ask God to give our boys wisdom. All right. Lord, thank you so much for this privilege of being able to pray. You didn't have to make it this way, but you offered us the ability to partner with you for the hearts of our sons, and we are grateful for it. So I pray for each son that's represented in the listeners today, that you would help them to be wise men and that they would fear you. Lord, I pray specifically that you would keep them from being foolish men who despise wisdom. I pray that you would tune their hearts to wisdom calling. Let them be able to hear it, Lord, to recognize you when you make yourself known to them. I pray they would value your words of truth, Lord, more than they value the most precious of treasures. I pray that they would seek you as if you are the most valuable thing in his life and that you would be a shield for them as they walk with integrity and knowledge and understanding. I pray, Father, that you would give them the ability to see wisdom beyond themselves. Father, I pray that you would protect our boys from thinking that their way is the only way, then instead that you would lead them to fear you and turn away from evil. Father, I pray and ask that you would help them to leave inexperience behind and that you would give them the ability, Lord, to discern when they need to speak and when they needed to be quiet. Lord, help them to search for the things that are pure and peace-loving, gentle, compliant, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, and without pretense. We ask these things, Lord, in your most precious name. Amen.
Jessica Smartt Thank you so much, Brooke. That's great. So we've mentioned your book, Praying for Teen Boys. You can grab it everywhere books are sold. Where can readers or listeners find you?
Brooke McGlothlin Yeah, you can find me on Instagram @BrookeMcGlothlin and you can also find me at BrookeMcGlothlin.net. My favorite place to hang out is probably Instagram. You can also learn more about the ministry of Million Praying Moms at www.millionprayingmoms.com. Lots of fun freebies and ways to get involved there.
Jessica Smartt Awesome, well thank you so much for joining us today, Brooke.
Brooke McGlothlin Absolutely. It's a pleasure, thank you.
Jessica Smartt Bye bye.
Jessica Smartt Guys, thanks so much for joining us this week on The Homeschool Solutions Show. You can find show notes and links to all the resources mentioned at Homeschooling.mom. If you haven't already, please subscribe to the podcast and leave us a review, and that'll help other homeschooling parents find our community. And finally, don't forget to tag us on Instagram @HomeschoolingDotMom. That's @HomeschoolingDotMom to let us know what you thought of today's episode.
