HS #254 Kids With Sensory Processing Problems with Dianne Craft
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Dianne Craft, President of Child diagnostics, Inc., is considered the leader in Alternative Teaching Strategies by several teaching universities. She has a master’s degree in special education and has over 25 years’ experience teaching bright children who have to work too hard to learn. In her quest to learn more about learning disabilities and their causes, Dianne became a Certified Natural Health Professional to better understand how an upset biochemistry can impact a student’s learning. As a nutritionist, Dianne also specializes in natural treatments for kids with sensory processing dysfunction and focus/attention issues.
She has developed the successful “Three-Pronged Approach” to reducing and eliminating learning disabilities: Brain Integration Therapy, Right Brain “Healing” Teaching Strategies, and Targeted Nutritional Interventions. Parents across the country have seen their children overcome learning struggles using these tools. Dianne has since created remedial programs for reading, writing, spelling and math, which incorporate her powerful midline therapy. Hundreds of teachers and homeschool families are using her alternative teaching strategies to successfully remediate their students. Dianne teaches educators, psychologists, speech therapists, occupational therapists, and parents these life-changing concepts directly to so that they can also work with their students and children.
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S EP 254
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Hi. This is Dianne Craft, special education teacher and certified natural health professional. In a second podcast in this series, we're going to talk about kids with sensory processing problems. Everything bothers them. In fact, Lynden B. Smith is a baby doctor and he calls these guys goosey-touchy kids. Now, everything is a big deal for them. Their whole nervous system is in high alert all the time. Sometimes they can have meltdowns during the day and they're often sullen and uncooperative because things didn't go well for them because they have to spend so much of their energy concerned and just paying attention to their nervous. So, he keeps Dr. Sydney Walker, says that these are kids they act how they feel. So they're not feeling good. We call them kids whose nervous system is in disequilibrium. They have to spend so much of their energy keeping their nervous system settled down that they are overreactive to their environment.
For sensory processing, the sort of kids we often may just say they're very overreactive to their environment. And that can make their life very hard. They have to use so much energy and expend it to keep their nervous system quiet, otherwise, they have so much noise in their head. So many things going on in their body that bother them. Sometimes they say they feel like there's a ball bouncing inside of them. Bottom line is, anxiety rules their day. We wanna make that easier for them.
The first part of this podcast, we're gonna tell you how you can identify whether you have a child with sensory processing issues, whether they've been formally identified or not. We're just gonna confirm some of the things that you see. Let me give you some of the symptoms that they have and you can download this study so you have a checklist right in front of you. And download it by going to the website.
So, the SI checklist for auditory issues. These are the guys, their auditory system is wired too tight. They're sensitive to loud noises. They put their hands over their ears for the vacuum cleaner, for the songs in church, things are too loud for them all the time. And in fact it's so fun to hear after we institute some of this natural nutritional therapy that you can easily do at home with using your local health food store as your resource, gonna find that you'll hear things that we do, and they'll say, oh, yeah, Mom, that vacuum cleaner didn't bother me at all. Or they sit all the way through the music session, the worship session in church, and they're just fine. This can be changed, but when they're sensitive to loud noise makes life hard for them.
They often dislike being in a group. Again, groups are noisy, they're busy. Think of their nervous system. It's so highly wired that they are like a fire engine sitting out in the driveway with his lights on. So, he's always ready to attack. Everything is an emergency. Everything is red alert. Sometimes, not always, but sometimes, language is delayed. So they're, not everybody has everything, but they often have a little of the pieces.
So their taste is so funny because they often will not like lots of different foods. They don't like the texture of the foods. For them, a nightmare would be eating tapioca pudding. Oftentimes, they won't eat meat because they don't like the texture. They often chew on clothing and you'll see that they're collars and their sleeves and everything is wet. He's often a very selective eater. You've noticed them, sometimes, they're just down to five foods and those are five tend to be all carbs also. So they like pizza and yogurt and french fries and mashed potatoes and crackers and chips and bread. And those are the, that's what they would choose. The problem is, that makes their whole body not get the nutrients it needs, so the problem only gets a little bit worse, but you found you can't change their desires when they eat. They would rather starve than eat their broccoli on the plate or even peas. So, what you wanna do is work on changing their system so it will accept food. And this can be done.
Transitions for them are very hard. They really have to work at keeping their emotions under control. If something changes without them noticing it. And you have accommodated that at home by making sure that they know when all the changes are coming up.
This is interesting, that tags tend to bother them a lot. So, I used to have a consultation business here in Denver, Colorado, where I saw people. Many of them would fly in from other states. We did this about fifteen years. Had families there, it was so fun to see what was going on with their child and then show them what to do. Well, as we were talking about tags, and I was just about to bring that up, and the dad took his little scissors out because the little boy had indicated that he had a little tag on the back of his shirt that was left. And I said, so you travel with your scissors, and he said oh yeah, always.
So that many times, because remember, their nervous system is not coated. A myelin sheath coats the nervous system and we know that's made of fat. We know the brain is made of fat. Sixty percent of the brain is fat. And, if the type of fat is DHA, docosahexaenoic acid, we get it in two places. In mother's milk and in fish oil. So, we wanna make sure that these guys make it later on to the solutions for a lot of these oversensitive behaviors that the children have, we're going to see that that's play a good role. But we have other things that play a good role. But these guys often, their socks have to have soft seams. You buy all your socks at one place because you know that if you have a seam in there that they feel, nobody...they're not gonna be worn. Or they'll just keep themselves barefoot all the time.
When I would see people from all over the country, I would always see my kids came in, especially my boys, they would have basketball shorts on. Or sweats, if it was winter. And flip flops no matter what, because jeans, belts, all of that, was just compressing on their nervous system and it was giving them signals. So it's like a radio getting missed signals and it's very staticky. Oftentimes they grind their teeth and that usually is...tends to be from the fact that they have so little magnesium in their system. Oftentimes they dislike having their hair combed or washed. You put off taking them to the barber, because it's like the ends of their hair have feelings and the... so, we usually see about an eighty percent reduction in each of these symptoms, and usually just after a few months.
In this podcast, we're not gonna have enough time to read all the testimonials that we get from parents all over the country. We're just, hear this, learn it, work these easy things with their children, and say, oh my gosh, my child's so much more calm. They don't cry when I leave the room. Or they can stay overnight at friends. Or any number of these. Or they're wearing jeans. They're all gonna, even one says, did you hear the angels sing Wednesday night? She ate meat the first time in five years, because, again, she could stand the textures.
There isn't much we need to change in the dial of these children in terms of their hyperexcitability and over-reactiveness, but it is definitely a dial that can be changed. And, of course, you'll be working with your doctor and if you want, a local nutritionist. But these are just some things that we have found have been very helpful.
Oftentimes, we say to ourselves, we just need to discipline them more. And it looks like it, when they have a meltdown in Walmart. It looks like you're not a good mother. But your other kids aren't having meltdowns. No, because they have a coating on their nervous system. They have the neurotransmitters, which are made in the gut, being manufactured just fine. They have known the tranquilizing mineral magnesium. So, they can look like they're all big, because it's easier for them. So, we say, is it character or chemistry?
I have found, over all my years of working in special education and as a nutritionist, I have found that chemistry plays a huge piece with these children. How have we found that out? By doing these easy interventions and watching the results. They will all of a sudden, will find that their whole nervous system is settled down and realize, it wasn't something they could control for a long time. Yes, would you get after them? Put down some rules. They can frequently, for a little while, hold it together. But it's just too much more energy for them to hold it together than it is for a child who does not have these leakages of neurotransmitters in their system.
So let's look at what is happening with these young people. We have found that, in the gut is where the neurotransmitters are created. Ninety-five percent of the neurotransmitter, serotonin, which is the feel-good neurotransmitter, is made in the gut. Or the bowel. So, let's look at what's going on there. We always knew that when they were, they had gut issues, there were some physical symptoms. But we're going to also look at the behavioral characteristics that we didn't realize came along with that. Physical symptoms are the fact that a child has a, like, we would call, a gut dysbiosis, which means he has too much, probably, bad bacteria in his gut, or really, too much yeast, is what just happens.
If a child has thrush, as an infant, which is that coating on the tongue, that means that yeast, a fungus, and basically, it's a yeast at this point, is, has started a spore in there and then that wants to grow every time they have a lot of sugar. Because yeast loves sugar, and it loves carbs. It's wild about antibiotics and gets extremely happy when given steroids because it can grow like crazy. And then it puts off little roots they call rhizoids, and they permeate the intestinal walls so they get a leaky gut. So they begin to get really allergic to everything. So, these are some of the little pointers that you can say, oh, I wonder if this is my child. And you know that, nobody has every symptom, but some of the physical symptoms that those yeast overgrowth, that I put in my questionnaire when I sent out to my parents before they came in for their consultations, I sent out a questionnaire. And I wanted to see how many of these symptoms were really bothering a child. The other thing is, we could get baseline behaviors and physical symptoms, so that we could see whether or not our interventions were helping.
`So if they are having allergy to antibiotics. So, they're saying, oh no, they can't have penicillin because they've been...allergic reaction to that. Penicillin, those kinds of antibiotics, are a mold. So, when the body takes in an antibiotic, like penicillin, yes, it takes care of the problem, the bad bacteria, but the body breaks out in hives cause it says, I have too much mold in here already. Get it outta my system. So, that would tell us that these are guys that are probably suffering from this sensory processing problems, because of a physical upset.
Yeah, from having athlete's foot that stays for a long time. When they were little, they may have had cradle cap, or a diaper rash, or they had lactose intolerance. These are all red flags and so we just found the earlier they have a lot of the antibiotics, the faster and more impactful the situation becomes. And our children will often, when we speak at autism conferences, we find that they had oftentimes in utero. In other words, the mother had to take antibiotics because of a bladder infection or something else. And we can change that gut dysbiosis, we just have to first know that it probably is. And we're just talking about the knowing now. Not that any of these are not correctable, at least in my mind, and my experience, to about eighty percent.
The behavioral characteristics that comes with a gut ecology have always been a surprise to us. Because we never looked at behavior and especially when I taught in our resource rooms in school and when I was finished with a homeschooling, and what we found is that we always, we're looking at changing their behavior. Only when we begin to look back at their history to see how many, either antibiotics they, or steroids, or were they just a five food eater because, and all carbs, so they were just feeding that system. We didn't know that the behavior was connected to that. When we found out, it really changed our IEP's.
So, these guys, what are some of the characteristics they show that they have an upset gut ecology? Well, mood swings. Like, they just never know where they're gonna be with that. Or spacing us. You just find them sitting and staring. Certainly, anger, irritability, aggression. It can be a really hard thing. Inconsistent performance, inattention, memory problems, math facts and spelling hard, inappropriate behavior, talking loudly, depression. We see this a lot in our teens, more negatives than positives. We never before put together the behavioral symptoms with the physical clues. And now we know.
So, what we're gonna do, is we are going to help these kids feel better. And so, we have, on our Facebook, it's just DianneCraft.org, and go to Facebook, we have the story of a mom who had a sensory processing disorder and a family. There was a four-year-old, and he just hated to touch sand. Sand was just awful him. So, and he would never touch it. Well, she said that she went through just this little gut ecology program that we have, that simple one that you can do at home, and she said, in the third week, we use a product we call mineral-rich, which has four times as much magnesium and calcium in it. Magnesium is nature's tranquilizer and it's also a natural laxative, so these guys often have been given Miralax or something, for their bowels when they really to relax their whole body, their bowels, and their nervous system with something like a magnesium. So, she has a picture of here of this little blonde-haired, four-year-old boy, playing in the sand with bare, happily smiling, and then the words she put next to that picture, a four-year-old who wouldn't have his feet touch the sand ever, capital letters. Mom calls mineral-rich, which is the one that we like, liquid gold. She says, how much they can get done in a day depends on the intake of these vital minerals. And again, that's the minerals which is magnesium, which gets eaten up or depleted because of the ??? that is put off by the yeast overgrowth in the gut which comes from sugar, carbs, antibiotics, or steroids.
So, let's look at some other symptoms. How do you confirm you're a parent of a child who has sensory issues? Well, we know a barber tools require, for your child's haircut, include sedatives and a scissor silencer. The thought of your child's upcoming dental visits give you anxiety attacks that require medication and therapy. We're so glad that we know some things that we can do to help these young people.
You go new clothes shopping at second-hand shops cause there's no break-in in necessary. And then, you also start wearing your socks and underwear inside out because it really does feel more comfortable that way. Entering the area in a world of a child with sensory processing problems. So, we find, even the biggest cause of food allergies comes from the leaky gut. Well, what is going on? We know that when they have the good bacteria in the gut, good yeast that's supposed to be there if we don't upset it, will get ninety-five percent of our serotonin created from there. That's the manufacturing plant for that very important brain neurotransmitter. Who would have known that gut and brain were so connected?
So, research has shown that the gut has such a big impact on behavior and learning, so it's very simplistic. We know that we can just change that out, now that we know the symptoms, now we know what we're working on, we know we can't just change diet. We know these are guys that they'll often take sugar and hide it in their room, that's all they want is sugar. If they don't get that or some...or mashed potatoes, or rolls, or whatever, is their form of sugar. That we can't just take that away because they'll eat nothing. So what most of us have learned, and as a nutritionist, what I, we do, is first, we plant in good bacteria. So we take the good probiotics. We like ??? by Nature's Way. We like to take that and put that in three times a day. So, it may say on the bottle, one time a day, but we know from Dr. Leo Gallens’, super immunity for kids book, and Dr. William Crooks books, C-R-O-O-K, his book, Hyperactivity, that we want, need to put things in those good biotics three times a day, because every four hours, they die, because they're, it's 98.6 in the gut.
So, we put in the good probiotics and we start crowding out the yeast. Then the next week, we keep those good probiotics going, because it takes quite a while to change this around, but we notice changes right away. But we have to keep it going. Then the second week, we're gonna add, if they're over six years old, we'll add an antifungal. We like to use grapefruit seed extract, not the liquid, but the tablets, if we can. Three times a day. And then, if we can, with the third week, now we're planting, now we're killing, everything's getting better. We may not see a change yet, in the fact that they will eat something other than a carb. Then the next week we add the magnesium, which is, we like it in the form of mineral-rich, which is four times as much calcium as magnesium because excuse me, magnesium to calcium. You probably caught me in that mistake didn't you? Four times, four to one ratio, I love that ratio, four times as much magnesium as calcium. Because the magnesium relaxes. Nature's tranquilizer. And, as I say, it also, of course we know it's a natural laxative. We all know Milk of Magnesia. So, magnesium is just a wonderful thing, because, what happens, is it just gets so depleted.
So, we're gonna plan three times a day, and no matter what it says on the bottle. No matter how many million or billion it says, so whether they're freeze-dried, it basically, it dies in the gut every four hours. So, that's what we do. And we do this process, the parent's, when we really have some issues, you will decide whether you wanna just do these three steps, or you wanna follow the eight steps that parents also follow because thy put the fats and those types of things in. In our little program, your nutritionist will have a nice program too. So, we'll functional doctors and... so they'll be many other people that have that. This is just one that we're telling you about. But we try to keep this up to about three months. Because that turns a whole body in three months. But long before that, you should notice they're falling asleep better, staying asleep at night, not wetting their bed, not waking up so cranky. Like one mom said, now I hear he's awake by his laughing in his room. And now he can go to the bathroom by himself because he's not scared. There's so many things changed. With the teenagers, it's, oh, they're coming out of their room now. Or they're not listening to their music so loudly. Or they're laughing and engaging with people. Because they're getting their whole system feeling better.
So, that's what we do. We like to get the probiotics, we get them refrigerated, that's always the way we get refrigerated...but chewable, liquid, don't worry, if they're just not strong enough, we noticed, and you'll find this in your handouts that you can get with this podcast. And then we like to do a natural antifungal, grapefruit seed extract tablets, not liquid, by Nutra biotics. They have them everywhere. Every health food store. We have some on our website too, if you don't have a health food store real handy, but otherwise, these are available everywhere.
And then, we work on reducing their sugar intake. And that's cereal and juice. So, then we start getting snacks of popcorn and nuts and beef jerky, and vegetables and those things. They won't eat raw vegetables, well, maybe they'll have some celery if you could let them dip it in ranch dressing? My experience has been that you could even take a leather belt and dip it in ranch dressing and it would taste good. Ranch dressing covers a multitude of sins. So, if you can do that, now this is my experience, after working with, probably, we've had now, three thousand families. Not everybody's the same. But this is my experience. This is not dogma, the way it has to be done. None a quote, but this is what I've seen.
I've seen the parents who don't do the planting and killing, three times a day, don't get any behavior results. So, and if they'll say, well, my child can't swallow a capsule. No problem. If it's easy to open up and to put into food. And so, these are two biggest steps of the bigger program, we have, as I say, eight steps for lots of people that like to follow that. But, this is a wonderful place to start by just giving them, even with preschoolers, even with our babies in our family, we would open up some capsules by Nature's Way and put it in, you know, their little cereal or things that they were eating. Just, even at six months. If they had any rashes, any crying, any burning bottoms, any antibiotics, well sure.
So, we know that anxiety, for our kids, for these wonderful children, rules their day. Now, childhood should be carefree. That's our goal. And I wanna give you a story real fast. Guess we'll end this by giving a couple stories. Isaiah was an 11-year-old, and her, the mom, I never saw this child. She just had heard me speak. And she's followed that biology of behavior. We have a ??? that has all the eight weeks in there, and so she decided to follow that. It took her a little while, she said, in her email, Trudy said, that this would be a way to go. But her son had such severe anxiety that she, at age 11, even if her husband was there, if she would try to hop in the shower, he would stand outside the bathroom and cry. So, she just said, what did she have to lose?
So, she started with the planting and then the killing and then gave the good liquid magnesium and then did the other steps, and all she said, this is what she said, she said, before I couldn't leave the room, screaming, crying when I was in the shower, couldn't stay overnight at a birthday party, of course. Now, she said, he stays overnight at friends, that just happened recently. He even goes to public bathrooms by himself, and this is her words, he doesn't freak out about everything.
So, that's what we're excited about. We need to be able to make some dent in that fire engine roar that they have in their nervous system. So, what did this mom start with? She started in the gut. Where the calming neurotransmitters are made, just like we talked about.
Here's a mom who had her young man named Kent. And her note said, just was real straightforward, Kent's anxiety is gone. His tummy aches are gone. His anger is gone. He's cooperating more. He gives warm hugs. And he's laughing more. So we're so grateful to God just showing us this kind of improvement that we can make. Times that we redo this, he'll do this for three months. That's what our program has, anyway. And then, times to redo it, the planting and killing program, just do it around Christmas. And around Halloween. Whether we call that Halloween or Harvest Festival, it's all about sugar and candy. And Easter. Just do another couple of weeks of planting and killing and doing the magnesium, just those three weeks. You don't have to do the rest of it. And you'll be able to get your good, happy, cooperative child back again.
So, everyone's gonna say, well, what can we eat then? Well, you're gonna reduce your sugar dramatically, because, of course, that's the feeder of this and we're gonna avoid, and nothing's perfect, nothing's all the time, but pancakes and waffles...let's say Saturday, Dad does pancakes. Well, then just let that happen, and get a little extra acidophilus and then you'll be alright. So, we're gonna avoid pancakes, cereal, juices, muffins. Sometimes people say, but we do gluten-free. And that's a great idea. It doesn't have to be. But if you are you can run into another trap. Things say gluten-free, but they'll have gluten-free cookies and gluten-free crackers and gluten-free muffins and gluten-free cakes and gluten-free breads, and pretty soon, the yeast is growing like crazy because it doesn't care whether it's gluten-free. All it knows is its carbs. So treat them the same as you would any other carbs.
After Christmas, we get a lot of calls, saying I don't know what happens, they just, their behavior was so good and it isn't anymore. Well, what do we have at Christmas? We have a lot of sugar and it's the way it should be, so we're not against that. We're just being realistic, and say, what do we do about it? So, what do you have for breakfast? You can have things like eggs, burritos, peanut butter toast, turkey sandwich, tuna sandwich. Snacks, they're great at popcorn and apples, salted nuts, fruit, veggies with dip, beef jerky. You will find that these guys do really well with sea salt. Let them have a little bit in their hand and lick it off their hand. Or put a lot of salt in the popcorn. Or slice the apples and put salt on them. Salt provides part of what we need for the adrenal gland. Their adrenal gland is always in fight or flight mode. So, they're always cortisol and aldosterone. And just a little more salt...in fact, you'll find, when kids are having meltdowns, you can sometimes just put a little bit of sea salt in your hand and have them lick it off, and give them a drink of water afterward, and they just settle down. So, sea salt is a blessing to people.
And, sometimes when I give the talk, I have a little cartoon that says, Skip, so that the car is outside the house, and there's a huge sign on the driveway that says, Skip, the baby's finally asleep. Turn the car off now. Coast into the driveway. Crawl in through the basement window. So, we're used to doing hard, hard things.
Nolan's mom says, her quote is, my sullen, moody, unfocused, emotional, contrary, willful daughter was transformed into an affectionate, pleasant, peaceful, joyful little butterfly. Her learning ability skyrocketed. Our home life has become so pleasant. And that's from a mom named Joanie.
So, these are the kinds of things that we get all the time. It's worth a try, always, of course, check with your doctor, or your health professional. Make sure that everything's okay. Many parents have and, they will get the go-ahead for it. So, the gut and the nervous system are connected, and that's important for us to know. So, we look at how to use targeted nutritional interventions for sensory processing dysfunction, but this also helps with anxiety, focusing, hyperactivity, behavior meltdowns, speech issues. So much, we didn't realize that oftentimes they have that fluid in their ear and that's a fungus or a yeast. And they aren't hearing the sound as well, especially if they aren't repeating the sounds after having some good speech therapy.
And what I love is social interactions. They say, oh yeah, I'm not so bouncy inside, so I can now listen to people. It's a wonderful thing to see that happen. So, you can work with your local nutritionist or integrated physician, or functional physician. The physicians that we like to, the many local ones, but just even books. Leo Gallend, and his kids talk about twins. One had ear infections and the other didn't. The one with the antibiotics was getting in trouble in preschool with, for hitting and kicking because his nervous system was so unhappy. Gallend, G-A-L-L-E-N-D, Leo Gallend. Dr. William Crook is another doctor who gives such a nice representation of how simple things can have with behavior when we understand where it's coming from. His book is called Help for Hyperactivity. William Crook. C-R-O-O-K. Dr. Michael Gershon, G-E-R-S-H-O-N, has his book, The Second Brain, where he talks about the gut is so important for our brain to work. Dr. David Perlmutter, P-E-R-L-M-U-T-T-E-R. P-E-R-L-M-U-T-T-E-R, Dr. David Perlmutter, The Brain Maker. He's a neurologist, and he found the same things that I have been seeing in my classroom. But he said that after giving them the probiotics to a thirteen-year-old whose mother had brought him in. As a neurologist, said what other medicine can you do? He's ticking all the time, and at age thirteen, everybody was making fun of him. And he said, well, okay, we're gonna have to really do some intensive probiotics and all of that. He said, and he talks about that in The Brain Maker, is the name of that book. And the mother called the next day and said, how much of this can I give him? He had the most calm afternoon. He didn't tick all afternoon.
So, these are people who are discovering the same thing that we've all known. That their gut has made provisions for us in our body. We just need to, when we get out of balance, we need to tweak that.
So, if we made a biology behavior cd set that has a story of Joseph, and he's a reactive attachment disorder young man with chronic athletes’ foot and we did the... no one realized how that was affecting his behavior. And he went to see a therapeutic parent, Nancy Thomas. And she said, what did you do with Joseph, he's a different boy. So all the mom followed were the eight-week program that we have here in the biology behavior cd set that has a 27-page booklet that gives you week by week editions, amounts, orders, brands, ages, everything that we refer to here is there. But again, remember there are other sources for this. You can get this kind of information and a plan from your local health food stores or nutritionists, from functional doctors, from any place. This is just what i did as a teacher and nutritionist.
And one last one before we go. It's the whole family report. Normally, we don't say do this with the whole family, we don't want you spending a lot of money on supplements right away. Just work with a child who has to work harder to keep their nervous system happy. But she said, they went did the whole family. These were their results. The nine-year-old, the eczema as gone. The bed-wetting was gone. Food aversions were gone. Focus greatly improved. The fourteen-year-old took it too since he was there. She said his attitude improved. That would be worth it right there, wouldn't it? If that may clear up. Eleven-year-old, attitude improved, and mom said for me, my memory's so much better and I have no more yeast infections.
So, this is just a quick review of some of the things that we can do to help our wonderful kids who have, whose sensory system is on red alert and that's making their day more anxious than we want it to be. You can download this, we're so happy to be part of this group of the solutions for homeschoolers, it's just terrific to be able to have a little time to talk about this. If you want to see more articles, just go to DianneCraft.org, Dianne with two N's, DianneCraft.org, and we will be able to help you. And if you want to call us with some questions, we're at 303-694-0532. And those will be on the handouts that you can get from solutions for homeschoolers.
Thank you very much, and until we talk again, have a blessed day.
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