HS #278 You Can’t Make Me! (But I Can Be Persuaded) Part Two with Cynthia Tobias and Sue Acuña
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Show Notes:
About Cynthia Tobias
Best-selling author of best-selling books The Way They Learn and You Can’t Make Me! (But I Can Be Persuaded) and featured frequently on Focus on the Family’s Best of Broadcast, Cynthia Tobias has a successful background that includes over 32 years as an author and speaker, 8 years of teaching high school, and 6 years in law enforcement.
Cynthia has written 14 books and is a featured guest on radio and television, a popular presenter for business, government agencies, churches, and schools throughout the U.S. and the world. She is the mother of twin sons, now young adults, and she and her husband Jack live in the Seattle area.
About Sue Acuña
Sue Acuña is one of those goofy teachers who enjoys spending time with middle schoolers. She and Cynthia Tobias co-authored Middle School: The Inside Story (What Kids Tell Us But Don’t Tell You), which has led to new adventures as a speaker. She has crisscrossed the country sharing anecdotes and advice on how the classroom experience can be more successful and enjoyable for everyone—students, parents, and teachers.
Sue received her B.A. and M.Ed. from Concordia University, Portland. She currently teaches middle school at Concordia Christian Academy in Tacoma and also directs the choir at St. Luke’s Lutheran in Federal Way. Sue and her husband Paul have been married for almost 40 years and have raised three sons, one of whom is married and expecting a son in June.
Show Transcript:
HS EP 278
Wendy -
Hello and welcome back to another installment of the Homeschool Solutions Show.
My name is Wendy Speake, and I am one of the many hosts we have here on the podcast. Each week you'll hear from one of us inviting one of our friends to join for a conversation about this busy blessed season as we educate our children at home.
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And now, on today's show.
Cynthia -
This is Cynthia Tobias.
Sue -
And this is Sue Acuna.
Cynthia -
And you're listening to, It's Never Just Another Day. Today we're talking about part two of the strong-willed child. You can't make me, but I can be persuaded. We couldn't get it all in one, could we, Sue?
Sue -
No, there's so much to say. And this...I'm excited about today because this is the practical hands-on, put it to good use stuff that, like I said, change my world.
Cynthia -
Right? In the last podcast we talked about some general things to remember and some general concepts with the strong-willed child who is not usually daunted, not easily discouraged, doesn't necessarily take no for an answer, can have an upside and a downside. And today we're going to talk about five really concrete, quick, and practical tried and true ways to bring out the best in a strong-willed child of virtually any age. And these actually were, you've tried all five too, haven't you, Sue?
Sue -
I use all five as much as I breathe. I mean, it's just become so natural to me and I have a pretty conflict-free classroom just because I've learned how to head things off and deescalate things pretty quickly because I learned all this from you. Gosh, it's been like twenty years ago now.
Cynthia -
And these aren't even original with me necessarily. These are what I've gathered over thirty-some years of thousands and thousands of miles of strong-willed kids of lots of ages. And these are five top ones that we all really agree are just truly important. So, I call 'em five to survive. Right? Five to survive the strong will. The key strategies.
Number one, and this is a really important one, choose your battles. Don't make everything non-negotiable. Remember you can't be the big boss. You have to, you can't get everything. You can't have it all your way, so you really have to choose what you want to go to the wall for, and go to the wall for it, and back off of the smaller stuff.
Sue -
And this is advice you start hearing from the time you're raising a toddler. Choose your battles. You know, is it really important that his clothes match? Is it really important? But with a strong-willed child, it's even more important because you are going to have to stand your ground on some things. You're going to be able to compromise on other things, and you're going to be able to just let some things go. And so, knowing which is, which is key.
Cynthia -
And for the strong-willed child to figure out the difference. You know in our household growing up, go-to-the-wall issues were number one, physical safety. We're not going to compromise on physical safety. You don't get to choose whether or not you hold my hand when you cross the street, whether you put your seat belt on, whether you sit in your child seat, anything that threatens your physical safety is a non-negotiable issue. Also, for us go to the wall issues, spiritual and moral values. I'm not going to let you lie or cheat or hurt somebody or steal. Those moral values and those spiritual values are go to the wall issues.
Sue -
And safety. Safety is a go-to-the-wall issue.
Cynthia -
Right. So, if I'm going to get those, then I have to give on a few issues that aren't quite so absolute. Exactly what you wear and how you wear it. Exactly what you say, and how you say it. Those are the harder ones to do because you want to just go ahead and tell them everything.
Sue -
In the classroom, when you're teaching, whether they do their math and pen or pencil.
Not a big deal. Getting the math done, showing all your work, a big deal. I mean, it's just a matter of what matters most.
Cynthia -
One of my favorite examples, one of the moms came to me and said, you know, I just...so frustrated with my daughter. She's preschool, an everyday we have this fight about what she wears cause I pull the clothes out and she wants to wear what she wants to wear and she pulls things out that don't match and we end up in this huge argument and kind of a screaming match and we're both in tears and we're always late and what should I do? And that's a very common question to mothers of preschoolers, right? And I have ones pretty standard answer. One of two things. Either only put clothes in the drawer that match. Or you just you, you just decide, you have to decide is this a really big deal?
The other thing that works is they actually have marketed lanyards now, that say design you can put around the neck of your child that says I dressed myself today.
Sue -
Alright, I like the stickers. You just discretely stick em on the back of your child ???
Cynthia -
Because the bottom line is, does it really matter? And it's an important question. Okay, how important is this in the greater scheme of things? And it's very difficult sometimes, but that's very good for your strong-willed child to figure out too. Oh, this is a really big deal. And so if I go along with the big deal, then I get some small deals on the side where they're not quite as strict.
Sue -
And they want that. A strong-willed child wants to know that there are some places where you won't bend, because if you would just do whatever I want you to do, then I'm the authority I'm in charge and I don't have any respect for you.
Cynthia -
Right. And remember that if you're going to argue about everything, they'll be happy to argue about everything. I'm happy to join every argument that I'm invited to when I'm younger. And the thing is, the thing that was sobering to me as a parent of a strong-willed child too, is that I have to be the model. I have to model the behavior. Model the responses, model the reaction that I would want my strong-willed toddler, let alone a teenager, to do. And so even though it's frustrating and I want to yell, or I want to go ahead and react the way I want to, I have to remember I am setting the example. So as my child is growing up, they're looking at me saying oh that's how an adult handles conflict. Oh, that's what they do when they don't want to do something. You are the greatest example.
Sue -
And if I'm strong-willed and I'm raising a strong-willed child, it's really helpful for me to point out when I could have gone my own way but chose instead to be cooperative when there was a rule that I didn't really want to follow, but I felt that it was important and that that was an authority that I was willing to follow and say, you know what? I really don't want to do that, but it's important and I'm going to follow that rule.
Cynthia -
Right. And remember, they have, they want this control. We talked about how important control was. So, if you want to share the control and still have the authority, then give me some sort of negotiation, some sort of small thing, right? What would you rather wear this one or that one? Well, I need you to wear this. I can remember a classic example when Mike was very young and I was trying to practice this, so he didn't really wear coat, so I said, well, what do you wear to keep warm? He said I want to wear Daddy's sweater. That's ridiculous, but I said well, Daddy, is it okay if he wears your sweater? He's, oh yeah, no problem. So, he dresses in this ridiculously large and ridiculous-looking sweater, but I didn't say anything. I just quietly picked up Mike's jacket, took it with me in the car, and you know, after a few minutes when he's really struggling with the over huge arms and stuff, I just said quietly, you wanna trade sweaters? And he's like, yes.
Right? So, in the heat of the moment, he didn't want to have that boney finger telling him what to do. But a lot of times if we can just kinda, just share a little bit of control.
Sue -
That's huge.
Cynthia -
Number two, the second strategy. It's good, now what is it?
Sue -
Lighten up, but don't let up. And you don't have to come down and be the heavy. You don't have to raise your voice and get angry. In fact, most of the time that won't work anyway, but you can hold your ground and I have a wonderful story and it's in our middle school book of a student I had several years ago named Ryan. He lets me use his name and now he's raising his own strong-willed child and he showed up one day in pajamas, which was clearly against school rules, and I said you can't come in my classroom with those pajamas on. And he immediately went to Defcon five. What do you mean, I can't? I don't have anything else to wear! And I calmly looked at him and said sorry, but you can't come into my classroom wearing those pajamas. And he stormed around some more and looked at me and I looked at him and I said nothing. And he finally said fine and reached into his backpack and pulled out a pair of jeans. And he went down to the bathroom to change.
But I had to stay calm through the whole thing, but neither did I give my ground.
Cynthia -
Yeah, you kinda called his bluff. Lining up and not letting up is kinda like, you don't let go of the wheel, right? Just kind of relax your grip a little, saying, you know a sense of humor is really important. And I know it's hard to keep a sense of humor when you've got a strong-willed child irritating you sometimes at practically every turn. But one of the best ways I know of, and maybe something that's just ridiculous, it's just, it's outrageous. And what you really want to say is, oh for heaven sake, I can't even believe you tried that. Instead, try to come back with a two-word phrase. Nice try. I'm gonna chuckle. Yeah, and smile. You just smile even when you don't feel like it. Oh, nice try. I thought you were serious for a minute. Of course, I'm sure you're not. And then, now, nine times out of ten, it's surprising, they'll just go, oh yeah, sorry, no big deal. But we gave that small window of golden opportunity for them to bow down gracefully and out of this.
Sue -
And we've allowed them to save face, which is really big to a strong-willed person, child or adult. Don't make me look like I'm weak. Don't make me look like I'm giving in. Give me a moment to save face. And sometimes I'll laugh and say nice try and even take it up one more step. Exaggerate just a little, oh if you're gonna do that, then you're probably going to do this too and grin to show that I'm being funny and then we laugh and you're right, then they can make it turnabout if they want to.
Cynthia -
And you know how they say the everybody's always says, oh, this smile is contagious and if you smile, but it actually is.
Sue -
It actually is.
Cynthia -
I mean, even if you have to say something they don't want to hear, right? Sorry, you're not going to get that and then you smile at the end. They unconsciously smiled back, and they are mad at themselves for doing it. But just that little bit of humor injected.
Sue -
And if you have a good relationship like we talked about last time, if your relationship is intact, then they might even say, oh, you always do that to me. And now you're both laughing. You're both comrades, and you can go on to get what you need.
Cynthia -
And when my boys like, I couldn't say, Robert are you trying to get me to yell at you? And he would pause, you know, no. Are you gonna do that? And I went, almost. And he'd be smiling, and he'd go, oh sorry. Or I'd say Mike, are you trying to get in trouble? No, not really. Oh okay, just checking. And then you know he'd be backing off, because again, it's not always, but so often, instead of just going for the kill right away. Oh, I just, that's it, you're just...instead of just jumping into that. Give me a chance as a child. Go, whoa, are you sure you want to ask me that question? Oh, is that how you wanted to do it?
Sue -
If you have this talent, raise one eyebrow while you smile, because then it's a, it's a questioning look and it's non-threatening and that really is the key, because if you are going to come at me as a strong-willed child with a big threatening presence, a big aggressive presence, I have to respond in kind. But if you're coming at me a little more gently, calmer voice. Calmer voice is huge. To storm into a room and say what's going on here is going to set everybody on edge. So, they're going to be hugely defensive. But if you can come in calmly and say, someone, tell me what's happening here, you're going to get a better response.
Cynthia -
And it's so hard sometimes to keep your tone of voice calm and firm when what you really want to do is just tear into 'em. But that is a really key thing, and the smile is absolutely critical. Try not to be diabolical about it. But the smile that says, oh, sorry, I don't think so.
Sue -
And especially, especially with a younger child who knows they're being naughty and is checking out to see what your responses is, would be just look at 'em and grin, like, yeah, I know what you're doing. And a lot of times, even that, the three, four-year-old will smile and stop.
Cynthia -
That's right because they're gonna call your, you have to call their bluff just like they call yours. And, again, if you've chosen your battles, some things you have to just do the hard way, but a lot of times you can actually diffuse it before you ever have to get to DEFCON five.
Sue -
And to me, that's key. If you can stop the power struggle before it ever happens, life is going to be so much calmer.
Cynthia -
That's right. Well, number three, this is a really important one. And this one changed my life with my strong-willed child, probably more than any other thing, and that is to ask more questions and to issue fewer orders. And here's how it works. As a strong-willed child, if you want me to do something instead of just ordering me to do it, if you ask me a question that assumes the best in me, nine times out of ten, I'm going to go ahead and do it.
For example, instead of saying, Mike, you said you'd get that trash out before dinner. I need you to take the trash out now. Instead of saying that if I can say, Mike, are you going to take the trash out before dinner? Oh yeah, I'm sorry I forgot. And nine times out of ten the question. I mean, if you think about this, even as an adult, right? On the airplane and the flight attendant says you can't put that in the overhead that's not allowed, you're going to have to put it under your seat. I just feel prickly and irritated. Whereas...
Sue -
Whereas you're a 12.
Cynthia -
But, if she says I'm so sorry, we're not going to be able to put that in the overhead. Would you mind putting it under your seat? And then I, my reaction is almost always, oh yeah, sure, no problem. It's the difference between the order and the voice. Now the question doesn't mean I'm asking you permission. It doesn't mean that you get to be in control. It doesn't mean that I'm pleading with you. It just, it's in the form of a friendly question that says, oh, are you gonna, I need you to do that if that's okay.
Sue -
Because we're right back to I'll do it because I want to, not because you told me to. And questions can also be, when are you going to do that? Or are you going to do this first or that first? Or what's your plan for getting that done? Which communicates, I expect you to get it done, but I'm going to give you some choice on when. In our house we would make a list of the chores that needed to be done on Saturday before anybody could play Nintendo and let the boys choose which ones they wanted to do. And so my strong willed child would quickly grab the list first, get the two tours that he wanted before his brothers had any choice, and then he would do them because he chose to do them. But it wasn't a, you need to do that before you can play. It was hey, which of these chores are you willing to do before you play?
Cynthia -
And after one seminar, about two weeks later, a dad came back and he said, you know the question thing? We tried it. It doesn't work. I said what? He says, no it doesn't work. I said, are you sure? Because I've been doing this question thing for over 25 years and you're the first person that ever said it didn't work. He goes no. We tried it on our strong-willed son. It doesn't work. And I said well can you give me an example of a question you're asking your strong-willed son? He goes, I'll give you a perfect example. Just yesterday I said to him, don't you think it's time you straighten your attitude up? That's when I figured out, you know what? Maybe I need to be a little more specific on the kinds of questions you ask, cause obviously you don't want to just simply turn something into a question that still has the same kind of snarky attitude.
Sue -
Yeah, and this wouldn't work either. Do you wanna get that done or do you wanna get in trouble? But that doesn't help because I, yeah, I'll, I'll always say, I'll take trouble.
Cynthia -
So, I kinda made a list of questions that almost always destroy relationships versus questions that can build them. So, let me give you an example of some questions that are destructive to relationships. Why did you do that? When are you going to learn? What were you thinking? Why can't you just do what you're told? What's the matter with? Whoa. All those questions.
Sue -
Defensive, defensive, defensive.
Cynthia -
They're almost always...and if you can't really remember those exact ones, here's kind of a shortcut. Any sentence with the words why and you in the same sentence are almost always doomed to fail. I don't understand why you had, whoa, whoa, whoa. I just might automatically have a wall of defensiveness that comes up. Why can't you just? Why don't you? Those questions are going to create a lot of conflict.
Sue -
Whereas on the other hand, questions that can build relationships are, hey, you want some help with that? And if they say no. Walk away. Are you ignoring me on purpose?
Cynthia -
This is one I tried with Mike. He must have been about eight when I first used it. He was just really irritating, and I said Michael. What? Are you annoying me on purpose? And he looked at me, and he kind of grinned and he goes, yeah, sorry I guess I am. And I said well you're really good at it. Knock it off. And I'm smiling the whole time. It's going back to that question of do you want me to yell at you? Are you trying to get in trouble? Just something about that question is a little disarming.
Sue -
Because you're you're reading me and you're understanding and sometimes I find that threatening, but sometimes I find that really encouraging.
Cynthia -
Yeah, I can get by with that, yeah.
Sue -
Another good question is, do you know why I want you to do that? Because sometimes knowing the why makes all the difference.
Cynthia -
Yeah, and over and over strong-will kids would tell me I don't have to agree with your reasons, but could you please have some? And we go back to that positional authority, where you say, because I'm your mom and I told you too. I just wanna know there are reasons. I might not like 'em, but at least I know they're there and you're not just trying to annoy me.
Sue -
This one's interesting. You can ask is that what you meant to do? I have had students who are so angry they're scribbling on their paper and they tear the paper, and they look shocked. And my first reaction might be, okay fine, what ??? but to say, well, did you mean to do that? And they're a little embarrassed that they overreacted, and they might have a chance then to say, um no, not really. What I was trying to do was. Give me a chance, give me some space.
Cynthia -
Right. Chance to explain yourself. You know you just hurt your sister's feelings. Did you mean to do that? Uh, no. I didn't think so. How do you wanna make that right? But if on the other hand if I say you hurt your sister's feelings, did you mean to? Yes. Well, at that point you have to do it the hard way, right? Cause we're not talking about a hundred percent success rate, but we're talking about a really high percentage of success rate. So just by asking the question instead of issuing the order. One of my other really favorite ones is, is that what you wanted? At some point, and I know we're talking primarily homeschool parents, but at some point, you know you have a child who brings you a failing report card, failing grades, a low SAT score. Here it is full of Ds and Fs, this report card and your first reaction is to say something like these grades have to come up.
And no, they don't. They don't. You know, Charlie Brown said in the cartoon there is no heavier burden than great potential. You think my grades have to come up. I feel no necessity for my grades coming up. So, here's what you do instead. You look at the report card for the Ds and Fs and you say wow an F in English. Did you want an F in English? No. Yes, I did. You do? Yes. I wanted an F in English. Well now you know that that's probably not true, but you're not going to get anywhere. Just let it go. A D in social studies. Did you want a D in social studies? No, not really. What grade did you want? I don't know. At least a C. What do you think it's going to take? Miracle. You want any help with that miracle?
See as you're asking your questions, you're getting them right to where you want 'em to be, but instead of pushing them there, you're allowing them to walk themselves there because what you want your strong-willed child to do in essence, is take ownership. And if it's not their idea, they're not gonna own it. And the only way you can get them to own it is to kind of ask a few questions to where they go, yeah, I know that's...well no, what I need to do is, or no, I know that I just need to and then you've got some leverage.
Sue -
But Cynthia years ago you taught me a one-word question that can make all the difference. And it's not please.
Cynthia -
It's just one short little word, and the interesting thing about it is, eight out of ten times it's successful. Eight out of ten.
Sue -
I would vouch for that, as many times as I've used it.
Cynthia -
And, when I asked my audience, as I say, you know, what do you think the word is?
They say, please, right? Please is a good word, but that's not it. What's the magic word, Sue?
Sue -
It's okay. Okay, and what I find funny is, you use it all the time even in an email. Hey, we need to get this done by Friday, okay?
Cynthia -
Yeah. And the interesting thing about the okay word is, it's not saying you don't have to if you don't want to. It's not saying I need your permission. It's how you say it. Okay, we go back to the tone of voice. Big difference between you know the classic example I give is Tracy is now 35 but when she's my, she's my niece at ten, I'm getting in the car and I say Tracy picture seat belt on. And she says no. And I'm thinking, well, hey, this is a go to the wall issue. I said put your seat belt. No. Well, what have I got now? I got nothing. I got a knockdown drag-out physical struggle we can't win, so my response is fine, we just aren't going anywhere except now I'm the only one that gets punished.
But if I say, Tracy, put your seatbelt on okay? And she says no. Then I get to say why? Why not? Well, it's, I don't like it. It's tight, it's uncomfortable. I don't wanna do it. Then I say oh here, let's loosen it up a little and then we'll put it on, okay? Okay, eight times out of ten, I tell, you know, mothers of preschoolers will say if I go at church and I've left my toddler in the nursery and I get back and say, okay, it's time to go home. No no no no, no meltdown tantrum. But then after listening to you, she said, I went, and I said time to go home okay? And she said okay.
Sue -
And that's that's a key, right there. Many times, people will respond with, okay, and your strong-willed child has agreed with you before she's realized what she said.
Cynthia -
That's right.
Sue -
Okay, and at that point, you need to not make a big deal of it. Just walk away and not say oh I see you can be agreeable when you want to. Just, you've won. Walk away.
Cynthia -
And here's where this tone of voice is really key, because remember, you don't, you know, oh, I just need to do it for me, okay? It's not pleading. That's weakness.
Sue -
Oh yeah.
Cynthia -
And then I have to fight my instinct to destroy you. If you're weak and tentative with me...
Sue -
You don't get to be in charge of me.
Cynthia -
You don't get to be in charge. I just run right over you. And so you want to be firm.
Your tone of voice essentially says, look, I know you could choose to die if you want to.
I hope you don't choose to. I need to do this, okay? So that your voice, you know it's time to take a nap, okay? No, I never take a nap. I don't need to take a nap. Nice try. Are you ready to take a nap? You wanna take it here? Or would you rather take it over here? And sometimes you can just deflect that, but you’re okay at the end means I'd like to take not the hard way. I'd like to take the easy way first.
Sue -
And I acknowledge that you have a choice, but I'm giving you an easy way to agree with me. That's powerful. This next one I quote you on every year, multiple times, and that is hand out the tickets and give fewer warnings.
Cynthia -
Right. I have to admit this comes from my years as a police officer.
Sue -
Yeah, I bet.
Cynthia -
I give you a quick example. As a police officer, I know most of you haven't even ever had a ticket...
Sue -
No, of course.
Cynthia -
We're trained, right, if we pull you over, we're trained in violator contact to do one of two things. Let's say you ran that stop sign. I come up. I've checked you out. You have all your, you're clear, and so I'm only gonna do one or two things. I'm gonna give you a ticket or else I'm gonna let you off with a warning. Now if I've decided to let you off with a warning you have to listen to my warning. You know this is a residential street. We have a problem here blah blah blah blah blah blah and you're sitting there, irritated, you wanna just go, just go. No. Excuse me, this is your punishment. Since I'm not giving you a ticket, you have to listen to me talk as long as I want to talk about anything I want to talk about. And the interesting analogy here is that almost every strong love child I've ever talked to would at least figuratively almost always rather have the ticket.
Sue -
Right, right.
Cynthia -
Because you talk and you say I can't believe...please just stop talking and give me the ticket. You have a couple of examples you've used this with?
Sue -
Well, I was also gonna say threatening. The more you threaten me as a strong little child, the more I have to see if you really mean it. So, I know what I've done wrong for you to come along and just say hey, you know you didn't get the work done. You're not going out for a break. That's, I can respect that. So, what I found is in class when I have a student who's done doing something that they clearly know is wrong, to simply say I'm sorry.
I'm sorry is powerful by the way. Not an insincere sorry but just to say I'm sorry you can't go outside. I'm sorry I can't accept this. You have to redo it. That's a simple ticket without threatening and without anger.
Cynthia -
And sometimes you can combine this with the sense of humor. Just say, look, I think you know what she did here. Do you want me to give you the lecture? Or would you rather just go straight to the consequences? And then that gives them a choice, right? Well, I don't know how long is the lecture? Well, it depends. You want the short version with a longer version? I mean again, you're smiling, but they know they're going to have to come up, one way or the other, there's gonna be a consequence.
Sue -
And to say, you know, you know you can't go see that movie because you would agree to do this, and you did not.
Cynthia -
Now here's one quick word of warning that I know you're going to recognize this. The listeners are going to recognize this, but as a strong-willed child, you have to understand that early on I learned there is pain for gain, so I have decided even at a young age, sometimes that some tickets are worth it. I can remember my mom saying later in life when I was just four years old and I got up on the table and she said if you stand on that table again, I'm going to spank you. And I remember thinking in my young toddler head, but how hard could that be and how long could that last? And I just stood up and said go ahead and spank me. Because I figured out that ticket was worth it.
And so, this is very frustrating to the parent cause they're going, what is it? I've tried everything. It, no consequence works to get him to do it. And when it comes to that, what I would suggest for our purposes here, because we don't have a lot of time. What I would suggest is you know strong-willed people in your family or in your circle of acquaintances. Here is where I would suggest asking them, next time you see 'em and it's kind of a convenient time, just say, hey, I'm just curious, when you were growing up, what kind of punishments, what kind of consequences actually worked with you? And what consequences, and there almost never did. And let me give you just a little bit of insight. Every strong-willed child is going to be a little different, but if you think that lecturing is the answer, and then you never follow up with the ticket because you're afraid that I won't. That the ticket will have any effect. It will have an effect, but I'm never going to let you know it has an effect, and you've got to follow through.
Sue -
And I would ask the question, what kind of an adult were you more willing to cooperate with? Who gained your respect? Whose authority did you respect? Who did you give the least amount of grief to and why? And almost every time it's that person who can be calm, who seems to understand me, who cares about me and who knows how to deal with me in a very effective manner.
Cynthia -
Not the person who talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk talk lecture lecture lecture, lecture, lecture.
Sue -
Punish, punish, punish, punish.
Cynthia -
Right, just call me. And a lot times you can say, whoa, I think you know what the deal is here, right? I can't let you get by with that. I know, I know. Sorry. So, I just quickly, there was one thing with Mike once when I was out of town and he did something he knew he shouldn't have and he, when I got home, I said I understand you did this. And he goes, yeah, and I don't care what you do. I don't care. It was fun I had a good time, and I don't care how you punish me. I don't care what my punishment is. And I said to him, and this is when he's like fifteen. I said, you know, Mike, I'm kinda the Queen of strong will. And all my life, you know there was only one punishment that I really, really cared about and that I couldn't take. What? I said having somebody I love estranged from me. Losing their love, losing their respect. And immediately he was crestfallen and immediately said I'm sorry Mom. I'm sorry. And then he said, so what's my punishment? And here's the, here's what I did to drive him crazy. I'd say, well, I'm going to have to think about it and pray about tonight and I'll let you know in the morning. Why can't you just talk to me now? Because I want to get, I want to give it some thought because this was a really big deal and I'll let you know in the morning. And that is the one little torture I got in.
Sue -
And I want to point out there that your goal is not to make him angry. I see some parents getting frustrated because the strong-willed child knows that if I can stay calm it's going to make you crazy. In fact, it might make you more angry. And so, if you're issuing a consequence and your strong-willed child just says okay, I can accept that. Let it go.
Cynthia -
Let it go.
Sue -
There's no reason for you to have to make him upset or angry. He knows he was wrong.
It always comes back to what's the point. And the point is discipline and growth. You want your child to be a better person.
Cynthia -
And don't let him make you angry. Because those who anger you control you, and so as soon as you've lost your temper, as soon as you've lost it, lost your cool, you have lost control of the situation.
Sue -
And even a toddler knows that.
Cynthia -
Even a toddler knows that.
Sue -
That if they can push that button, yep.
Cynthia -
Well, you know the fifth one is really, it's very sobering. And it's very true. It's make sure that your strong-willed child always knows that your love is unconditional. Unconditional.
You say, I love you no matter what, and as a strong-willed child, they say really, what about if I do this? Now, do you love me? What about this? What about this? And we're going to push you and test you and call your bluff over and over, and sometimes as a strong-willed child, I find that you don't really love me no matter what. You only love me if I follow your rules. You only love me if I do it your way. Otherwise, you don't seem to love me at all. I need to know that no matter what I do, you will always love me. That doesn't mean that you let me get by with it. I don't get to escape punishment, but I need the affirmation that says not just that, oh, you know it's gonna hurt me more than it hurts you and not the funny stuff. I need you to look me in the eyes and say, you know this is the last thing I want to do. Because I still love you more than anything else.
Sue -
And you can imagine what a gift it was for me, for my eighteen-year-old strong-willed son to tell me that he would tell his girlfriends, my mom understands me. As many times as we knocked heads. as many times as I had to issue those consequences, he still knew that all after all the trouble he had given me, I still loved him. And in the classroom, this comes back to, or even as a parent teacher, it comes back to sometimes swallowing your pride and swallowing your anger and putting it aside. And when that child is is repentant or ready to come back and be calm, to just go with it.
Cynthia -
I can remember when Mike was about two, he climbed into an empty toy chest in his room that was never supposed to be empty, but, and he would open up and he goes, go away, and he would put the lid back down. And I would just stand there and then he would open it up, go away. And I'd still stand there, and then he's like, go away. I told you, go away.
But then he was really happy that I didn't, right? Cause he didn't really want me to go away. And as he got older, we had a deal that when he got his driver's license and he was sixteen, seventeen, and we always, I always told him, I said Mike, no matter what kind of trouble you're in, you can call me anytime, anywhere. I will not ask any questions, I will always come and rescue you. And one of those times happened. You know I was at lunch with a couple of girlfriends and I got a phone call. And Mike said mom, you know you told me that I should always just call you and you wouldn't ask any questions. And I said, oh my goodness. And it was a situation, you know, where I needed to go rescue him. And he was, because of that relationship, and because I was true to my word, I did not go away.
I was still there. That it turned out well, and then he and I, even at this point in time, have an even stronger and a good and positive relationship.
Sue -
And I think what you said there is everything. That it really is the key to dealing with a strong-willed child is to start from the point of relationship. Start from the point of I want to work with you, not I want to mold your will to mine.
Cynthia -
Right. And you better straighten up, right? Well, you know, again, we have lots of resources. If you go to cynthiatobias.com, and our resources, drop down the free resources, you'll find a good section there under strong-willed kids. A fun one there is potty training struggles. That was...so, and there are tips, we'll put a link in for the five to survive so you can be reminded of those. The book You Can't Make Me, But I Can Be Persuaded is a pretty good primer for almost any age. And the kids themselves, the strong-willed kids, it's okay if they pick it up and read it. If you're at the end of your rope with that strong-willed child, remember this. It is a gift from God to have a strong-willed child and that strong-willed child has the gift of strong will for a reason. They're going to change the world one way or another. The better you can help with these tips and this attitude and this understanding, the more likely it is they're going to change the world to be a better place.
And the days will be better, not necessarily worse.
Sue -
No. And then you'll learn that, especially with the strong-willed child, it's never just another day.
Cynthia -
Oh yeah, that's for sure.
Wendy -
Thank you for joining us this week on the Homeschool Solutions Show. As always, you can find show notes and links to all the resources mentioned at homeschooling.mom. I hope you'll take a moment to subscribe to the podcast and, if it was especially meaningful to you, share it with your friends via email or social media. This is just another way we can all encourage and love and support one another.
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