CM 13: Emily Groth Starting a Charlotte Mason Book Club

CM 13: Emily Groth Starting a Charlotte Mason Book Club

Links and Resources:

Show Notes:

Bio: Emily Groth loves Jesus, His people, and His good creation (admittedly all rather imperfectly and only by grace!). She has lived on two continents and across 5 states, moving 9 times since she and Troy were married in 2001. Since each of her four children were born in a different state, she has had the opportunity to learn to make deep roots quickly, striving to bloom where her family is planted, even if only for a few seasons. When a dear friend introduced her to Charlotte Mason homeschooling, she realized that her home was missing the atmosphere of grace, but found hope and a new path in Mason’s principles and methods. Digging into the volumes and digging deep into relationships resulted in the start of the “Space to Grow” book club in 2016 for local CM mamas in the upstate of South Carolina, as well as their monthly natural history club lovingly referred to as “Wander and Wonder.”

Resources:

Simply Charlotte Mason https://simplycharlottemason.com/

A Delectable Education https://www.adelectableeducation.com/

Nancy Kelly https://sageparnassus.com/

Essex Chumley quote found here: https://sageparnassus.com/parents-are-peacemakers-1-of-7/

Sabbath Mood Homeschool https://sabbathmoodhomeschool.com/

Start Here: A Journey Through Charlotte Mason's 20 Principles https://afterthoughtsblog.net/product/start-journey-charlotte-masons-20-principles

For The Children’s Sake https://www.amazon.com/Childrens-Sake-Foundations-Education-School/dp/1433506955/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3IQMASE3M4TBA&keywords=for+the+children%27s+sake&qid=1583162449&sprefix=for+the+ch%2Caps%2C930&sr=8-1

Charlotte Mason's Original Homeschooling Series

Volume 6: A Philosophy of Education https://amzn.to/38iEvlx

Volume 1: Home Education https://amzn.to/3awLKZc

Volume 2: Parents and Children https://amzn.to/3amSadf

Volume 3: School Education https://amzn.to/2G0EiqW

Show Transcript:

CM EP Emily Groth Interview

Julie -

Hi, hello everyone. Welcome to the Charlotte Mason Show. I'm your host Julie Ross, and I am here with my friend, Emily Groth. Hi Emily.

Emily -

Hi, Julie.

Julie -

This is so fun because Emily is in my studio, which is my house. So, we're live and in person. We are fancy, today. I asked Emily to be on here because she is such a dear friend. And she also started the Charlotte Mason book club that I've been a part of for, four years?

Emily -

Four years.

Julie -

Four years now. And it has been such a transforming impact in my life. And I know that it has impacted so many other people as well. And I know there are lots of moms who consider starting a book club or joining a book club to read Charlotte Mason's volumes for themselves. And that can seem really daunting. And so I'm hoping today that they will be encouraged at just what an awesome experience it can be, and how easy it can be to start learning. To find people. And that they'll just be encouraged to read her volumes for themselves. I know you can speak to this as well, but you know, you can read a lot of books about Charlotte Mason's philosophy. And you can get its curriculum and resources that have her name on them, but it's not really until you read her actual words that Charlotte Mason wrote herself that I felt like in my home, it had the biggest impact in changing our... the way our education was run and the way our home felt and so, I always encourage everyone to read her volumes for themselves.

But that can be very daunting cause the language is a little... what's the word?... Victorian? The way that we're not used to reading books today and she quotes a lot of educational philosophers and people that, if you don't know who those people are, that can be very intimidating. So, having other people to read it with you and discuss things, really helps a lot so, I'm so excited Emily is here to talk about it, but before we get started, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself?

Emily -

Sure. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it so much. Your family is very special to our family. So, Troy and I recently just celebrated our 18th wedding anniversary, and I can tell you that he is still my favorite. We have 4 children. Micah is 14, Anna is 12 and they are both in form 3. Aaron is 9, Isaac is 7 and they're both in form 1. Some fun family trivia, which you know already, is that we have moved 9 times in our married life, including a couple of very sweet years overseas in Budapest, Hungary. Each of our kids was born in a different state, which means all six of us were born in different states, actually. And so homeschooling has proven to be a true blessing when you're a family that moves as many times as we have. And strong sibling relationships are truly a key goal in our schoolhouse.

We currently live in a little tiny house with a big yard. We have five acres and a creek, and our pet menagerie includes three dogs, one fish, two miniature horses, two big horses, and as of yesterday, a donkey. So, when we’re not at home, the children are busy in sports and 4H and we spend a lot of time at the lake. That is a little bit about us.

Julie -

And your yard is awesome. Like, it's really... who's coming over today? And I said, you know my friend that has the really cool yard? With like the cool tree house and the zip line thing? They're like yeah! So, your yard is really fun.

Emily -

Thank you.

Julie -

Alright, so tell us how you got interested in Charlotte Mason's Methods and got started with that. Cause that's a really cool story.

Emily -

Sure, thanks. So, first, I can tell you that I never planned on being a homeschooler. I received what I believed to be a very strong education in public schools, all the way through graduate school for my degree in occupational therapy. I had it all planned out. I would be home with our babies until the end. This was five and in kindergarten. And then I planned to work at the little post-school and share varied dreams of summer vacation with the children. Funded by my amazing job that gave me the same vacations that the children would have.

Julie -

That was my plan too.

Emily -

Isn't that lovely. So dreamy. But the Lord opened up the world of homeschooling when we were pregnant with our first child. We had just returned to life in the states and actually, we read, Dr. Dobson's Bringing Up Boys. And that was the first that we really considered homeschooling. We heard about it from Dr. Dobson, so. So, I tell everyone that I made all the very typical mistakes with that tier first form.

Julie -

The guinea pig child?

Emily -

Yes, the guinea pig child. I very distinctly remember lying on the floor with him in our house in North Carolina. He was age four and I was trying to get him to practice phonics with me and he said, I don't care what F says, I just want to go catch lizards! And I wish that I could say I sent him out to catch lizards, but instead I felt frustrated and I pointed at that letter F and I made a whisper. And that really was my first clue that homeschooling might not be just as dreamy as I thought it would be. And having these ideas of what life was gonna be like, and everything turned out a little differently.

We were invited to join a well-known classical community and that sounded good because it sounded like, okay, well maybe I could learn how to do this as other families do, to journey beside, and so we tried to hit a stride there, but within months, we moved to Wisconsin. So in our new location, I helped get one of those communities started and I'll tell you that those dear families are still our family today. Those relationships are very precious to us. But, we moved again. So, that's when we came here to South Carolina and we tried to join another group here in South Carolina, with that same you know, kind of global community, trying to find our niche. And then we joined another community ‘cause that wasn't our niche. And in the meantime, my relationship with that first born was so strange during homeschool hours, there is an afternoon class for that community and I would sit in the afternoon class with him, beside him or across from him, with him slipping further and further under the table as ??? And I am so ashamed to say I would be, you know, tapping him. Bumping him under the table, threatening all kinds of consequences if he did not actively participate. I would say, if you don't answer five questions, you're not going to archery. Or, you know, those kinds of threats, and prodding. And I've done my research and everything I had read and heard seemed as though this was going to be the very best way of learning. Learning to remember, learning to think, and learning to write. But I knew that my child was drifting further and further away from me.

So, remember I said that I had helped start one of those communities in Wisconsin. Well, my very dear friend there, who did that together, she schooled in a lot of the same ways that we did, but she had a home that was noticeably different than mine. As I prayed and reflected and just asking God to show me what was going wrong and how I could turn things around, knowing how precious that relationship with my boy was, I thought about her home and I saw that she had something in abundance that mine did not. And that was grace.

And she came from the Charlotte Mason tradition, and so I decided that I needed to dig a little deeper and see if perhaps I could be a Charlotte Mason mama too and save that relationship with my boy. And so then, enter Brittany McGanns, first grace to build Charlotte Mason retreat in North Carolina. So I was really excited to talk with you earlier and hear that you were gonna talk with her as well. She is a pretty special lady.

Julie -

Yes, for sure.

Emily -

Yes, and the Lord just allowed that retreat to be perfectly timed. So it was so encouraging and so equipping, very worshipful, very full of delight. And ?? speakers, so that is where I first met Liz Catrill, with ??? and Nancy Kelly, of Sage Parnassus. And Charlotte Schaffer, Simply Charlotte Mason. They were the keynotes for that retreat and while I sat there in my chair and nobody, I'd gone all by myself...

Julie -

That takes a lot of courage.

Emily -

I was desperate. I needed to find what the Lord was calling us to do and their talks were inspiring and convicting and sometimes, honestly, just over my head. Nancy Kelly at eight o'clock, on maybe that first night, she presented a magnanimity, which I still struggle to say out loud, as you can see.

Julie -

I'm glad you said it and I don't have to.

Emily -

So, I mean, now, going back, I mean that is fantastic and I absolutely see why that's something that the Lord directed her to share with us. But at the time, I had no idea. So, but, it was just, it was really neat. Just inspiring and convicting, and even though sometimes over my head. I just knew that the Lord had provided that opportunity for me to dig in.

So one day, I didn't know anybody, right? And so there was nobody for me to sit with at lunchtime, so I kind of, with each meal, I would sit with a different group of people. And at lunch on one of the days of the retreat, I had the blessing of sitting down next to Charlotte Schaffer and her husband, John. Well, we talked a lot. I seized the opportunity to ask many of the Charlotte Mason questions that were now swirling around my head. And then, I also asked, do you know anybody in Greenville? Is there anybody that you can help me build a relationship with, someone who would be willing to mentor me where we live?

So, you know, they had a few ideas, but sadly those trails really didn't lead anywhere. And so, on the last day of the retreat, John looked at me, and he said, you know what that means, Emily. That you'll have to start a new group. And you know what I said. I don't know anything. And so, he answered, let the Lord lead you. And that was such an encouragement to me. I came back home and our group was born just two months later. And that's ???

Julie -

That is such a neat story. I just love that you had a friend that you could reach out to and ask her and that you saw that difference. That it wasn't... let me tell you what I'm doing in my home. But that you asked, because you saw that in this beautiful home, and that just speaks volumes for what this philosophy does overall with your whole family, as you know. So, if you come home and you start the book club, and as you start to implement those principles, have you seen your family kind of change and grow?

Emily -

Well, there are many answers to that question, right? But, I'll start with one of my favorite Charlotte Mason quotes, which is well-loved by many. So it will sound familiar to many of your listeners. "The question is not how much does the youth know when he has finished his education, but how much does he care, and about how many orders of things does he care. In fact, how large is the room in which he finds his feet set? And therefore, how full is the life he has before him."

So, I told you about Micah, I told you that I was struggling and he was struggling and so as I watched this brilliant child struggle throughout school hours, I was puzzled and frustrated and felt lost, honestly. So every Mama believes the best about her kiddos, so, and do hope that you'll forgive me for sounding less than humble, but, this child is special. On the outside, we looked shiny and successful. Through that community, he had earned the very special t-shirt for memorizing the full curriculum four years in a row. Math always seemed to be just an intuitive gift for him. He is naturally extroverted. He is just a natural leader. He's great at sports. I mean, we looked shiny, right, everything just seemed to be really going our way.

But again, our school hours were absolute drudgery for both of us. So, as I started adding Living Books to our day, I remember getting to a section that I thought, oh, well, this is gonna sound familiar, and he's gonna lean in. I'm gonna get his attention with this one. And so I asked a content question. And without ever hearing me talk about Charlotte Mason, cause it sounds like, oh, he just overheard you talking on the phone or something. I can just assure you, he had not. He answered my content question with a shrug, saying, I don't know. And I said, come on buddy. I know you know this, your memory mastered this stuff, not once, but twice.

And he answered, not disrespectfully. Just honestly. Sure Mom, I memorized it, but that doesn't mean I ever cared. Oh, goodness. Yeah. That just hit me right in the middle of the chest. And that's when I truly understood that quote from Ms. Mason, right? That's what we were missing. This particular child, quote-unquote, knew so much. His big beautiful brain held lots of facts and lots of information, but very little of it had ever touched his soul.

And so there were few orders of things that he had sampled from the wide feast of God's world. I can tell you, because your original question was, how has our family changed or what benefits have I seen. So, years later, this is the child who prepared our morning tea for morning time. But he just took that on himself. He goes and gets the tea kettle ready. He enjoys serving his siblings by making pancakes or preparing the morning time snack. He still doesn't love reading, but he will not sit down with a book, and I'm pretty sure that's because I don't care what ?? I'm pretty sure he has a little trauma from that particular day.

So, audiobooks have been key. You and I have talked many times about that, so audiobooks are just key for our many car trips. And he appreciates a good story with the rest of us. He narrates particularly beautifully. He's independent in his daily schedule, outside of our family morning time, which I honestly thought would never happen. He spends hours upon hours outside with his siblings and friends and pets. He's observing the universe, and most importantly, he's caring about what he sees.

Something really precious that we have our nature study last week, and our nature walks, he always brings me something as a gift, completely unsolicited. So, last week, it was the inner portion of the fruit of a sycamore tree and it looked like a flower bud to him. So, he carried it over and he said, I have a present for you. Another time it was a stick, completely covered in slimy purple moss. And he brought it to me and he said, I really love this color. So, perhaps these are not typical gifts, but this is a fourteen-year-old boy.

Julie -

Yeah, I mean, that's something you think of like a preschooler doing. I just think it's awesome that a fourteen-year-old boy is like, my mom is gonna think this color moss is amazing.

Emily -

I see this. I think it's cool. My mom's gonna think it's cool, and I wanna make her day. And so he comes, and he offers these things to me. He's taller than me now. And he'll come stand next to me on the playground and give me a quick hug before running back to play football with his friends. He wants to tell me about his encounters in nature and he wants to tell me what's happening on the basketball court.

So, that's... yes, our relationship is restored. And it's precious. I mean, this is my little buddy. This is my frist born, right. I learned to be a Mama while he was learning about the world. And I was seeing that slip away and God, by His excellent grace, has given that back to me. And I attribute that a greater understanding of atmosphere and discipline and life and absolutely that grace that came into our home with those things. So... not real recently. Maybe about two years ago. There was something that changed in our schedule and I said, okay guys, we're gonna have to change our school schedule. We're gonna have to put some things off, and he said, but not morning time, right mom? You're not gonna cancel morning time, right?

And so, again, these are just these little things that can kind of hide in your heart, and you say, this is where I see that what we're doing has brought me traction. So, really quickly, and I've gone on too long about this, but I've gone on so much about the firstborn because ?? So, the only girl, Charlotte Mason has given her the freedom to pursue her passions in our schedule. And to feast, right? Laying it all out there, literature, music, drawing, nature. But also that the short lessons have allowed her afternoons to be free to pursue her passions of music and theater and archery. And here is where I'd also just love to tell people, I am not musically talented. I don't read music. I don't sing on key. And yet, this is where the Lord has put a passion in this child's heart and Charlotte Mason has allowed me to spread that feast, even over those things that I don't feel to be a master over, right? But they're there. I'm not creatively gifted, but these are opportunities for us to experience the riches together, so that's really special. It also gives her time to serve. She has adopted a shut-in couple in our neighborhood. And those short lessons give her time to run over and take them a morning time snack.

Julie -

As they get older, it's so beautiful to see the things that they can do, because of the short lessons. It gives them so much freedom as they grow older, to really become a person, that I wasn't to be, which is neat.

Emily -

And it's the breadth of the feast, right?

Julie -

Yes.

Emily -

So, I have four kids, so I'll tell you about one more. He is what Colleen Kessler, was a blessing to me at the Great Homeschool Convention when she explained children who are twice-exceptional. So, this kid is so bright and so impulsive, right? And so, we were really struggling in that community that we were in, that folks just... I knew they didn't understand him. And so, that was the first year that he was really part of a community once we came back to South Carolina, he just wasn't understood. And he was labeled things that were not nice, right? And so then, I said well I'll be his tutor. I'll keep him close to me.

Well, that meant I was sending him to the hallway an awful lot, because he was, you know, more wiggly, or impulsive, you know, someone says, give me a pencil, and so he throws it to them. So, he has a unique love for learning, and he just needed that space to grow at his own pace. He can run wide open but he's also the kid that you'll find cuddled under a blanket with a stack of books from historical biographies to endangered species sports venues. In that community setting, my heart was broken for people who didn't understand him. At home, he has that freedom to, again, just dig into that feast both in our morning time and through his independent work, he's striving. And he still has those group settings, like Sunday school, that he can enter with confidence and ??? Because he's learning this way at home, which, I just can't express to you what a blessing that is.

So, for all of us in our homeschool, ?? gives us the philosophy, ??/ happens. That's what reading her books does for us. It's not one or the other. They have to go together. So it's given us that roadmap for homeschooling. Our goals are clear. There's no panicking each year about what we'll do next.

Julie -

And that's an amazing feeling, isn't it? When you finally get to that point, where you don't have to reinvent the wheel every year? It's amazing. yes.

Emily -

?? With God's help and God's grace, we are on our way. And we share affections, ?? We have a language inspired by the stories that we've journeyed through together. The nature study treasures, the art museum visits that, you know, the biggest would say, ah, the art museums. Something that he saw, so for all of us, that has really proven to be ?? but it's about how many things that we care about. And that's, that's priceless.

Julie -

That is. Yes. And you guys will always cherish that forever. I love that you mentioned, like, just the beauty of the feast, because, like Charlotte Mason's first principle, children are born persons, you don't know what part your child will gravitate towards. And it might not be something that you would have ever thought that you wanted to include in your children's education. And that becomes something that they latch onto. And it might be that they need time to be themselves and to grow into who they are. And, again, it also fosters that relationship, like you were talking about, with your children, because you're with them, you're talking about these things, you're having great discussions, you're building that family culture. And that's something that's gonna last and be precious forever. That is a huge blessing. Thank you for sharing all those. That is really encouraging, I'm sure, for a lot of people who are listening who want that for their family as well.

You mentioned, on the retreat, you got the idea, very gently put into your head, to... that you need to be the one to start the book club. So, what progressed after that? How did you go about starting this?

Emily -

So while the Grace to Build retreat was amazing, it was full of really great information. I knew I had a lot to learn. So, there really is no firehose approach to just understanding everything Charlotte Mason said. We really need to dig in, we really need to pray, and we'll need to read it ??? So, I needed a mentor. I needed someone who would walk with me through the basics and show me what school and life was going to look like with this new way of schooling in our home.

Unfortunately, not working from the folks that I met at the retreat, and then broadcasting in several local Facebook groups yielded no responses to my invitation to come be my new Charlotte Mason best friend. So, as the Schafer's had encouraged, I next put out feelers, just for interest in starting a local book club.

So, to tell you a little bit about that club and how we got started. This January of 2020, we have celebrated our fourth anniversary of meeting together. We read volumes six, in entirety, volume one, and volume two, and now in May, we'll finish volume three. Lord willing. So, many founding members are still actively participating, and we have visitors join us every month. So on average, we have twelve to fourteen Mama's per meeting. I've actually charted this because I am not a details person by nature, so sometimes I make myself do the slightest things like that. So I tracked attendance and saw the average is twelve to fourteen and I can tell you that we have had as few as six and eight, and as many as 24 and more meeting. And we also hosted a successful introduction to Charlotte Mason night that reached a larger audience. And that was a really ???

Julie -

Yeah, and I think a lot of the newer moms this past year came from that kind of informational meeting if I'm correct.

Emily -

Yeah. That was really helpful.

Julie -

Yeah, yeah. I think I asked you about that. Well, do you wanna talk about that now?

Emily -

Well, we can. Sure. So, that... I just really feel like the Lord had laid that on my heart. And we planned it really quickly. It was fairly off the cuff. We did it within about two weeks’ time, cause I said I just... it's May. I realize it's May. But I feel like mothers need this information now cause they're planning for their next school year already and let's just share the hope that we found. Let's just say there's another way for the Mama whose kid is slipping under the table like mine. There's hope out there. There's restoration for relationship and there is freedom for these beautiful schedules. And the feast is obtainable.

I was pretty sure, when I first spoke to that friend who was the mom for me, that I couldn't do it. I was just pretty sure that, yes that's lovely, but I could never keep track of all of that.

Julie -

Yeah. Right. There's lots of parts.

Emily -

And I would look at websites that had the beautiful curriculum, thining, I can't do it. So we wanted to just offer that hope. You can do it. If I can do it, Mama, you can do it. Just come alongside me and we'll do it together. So that got the word out. And the feedback that we received was, first of all, that that was the Lord offering that. So, while we, you know, put together the agenda, we brought the snacks, it was the Lord who said call these people to us for weeks to share that information.

And then, secondly, there were people that came to that event that would have been too shy to come to a book club. Because a book club seems like, oh, I'm going to have interface. I should have read. For a meeting that's called, An Introduction to Charlotte Mason, well obviously I won't have to know anything to come. I'll just come eat your snacks and I can do that. So, that did it, it pulled several new moms to us.

Julie -

Yeah, and I love the concept of that, because you're sharing the wealth and the beauty of this with other people who are just kind of testing the waters, you know. They're not having to commit to a book club in a year, and I'm gonna study this. That takes a much higher level of commitment for sure.

Emily -

Well, and like I said, we pulled it together really quickly because we just came up with our skeleton agenda. And then each of us took one section and we said, who is Charlotte Mason. And I don't remember which section you had, but, yes, maybe you shared on narration, right? And then we shared on nature study. And we stripped down what is atmosphere, what is discipline, what is life. And you know, did a couple of really brief, this is what narration might look like. Or, here's some Living Books.

Julie -

Oh yeah, and people brought samples of what they use in their home and that was really neat too, to see what people were doing.



Today's episode is brought to you by A Gentle Feast. A Gentle Feast is a complete curriculum for grades one through twelve that is family centered, inspired by Ms. Mason's programs and philosophy, and rooted in books, beauty, and Biblical truth. You can find out smooth and easy days are closer than you think at agentlefeast.com.



So what advice would you give to a mom who's interested in starting a book club? So if they live somewhere and they don't currently have a book club that they can join, they could be like you and be the pioneer, just plow the way, so what advice would you give them?

Emily -

Well, first, I just kind of sampled the waters because I was pretty sure that I was the only person that cared.

Julie -

In a city as big as Greenville, I must be the only one, yeah.

Emily -

Yes, but, I just took that simple faith and posted on several local Facebook pages for homeschooling families, I was looking for anyone who may be interested in reading those Charlotte Mason books with me. I was very honest. I know nothing, I probably won't read this book unless you read it with me. Would you like to try, right?

So once several Mama's had replied positively, I started a brand new page on Facebook, which is very easy to do. This was 2016. I know some people have tried to reduce their social media presence sometimes, but this was working for us, and so I labeled that Charlotte Mason homeschoolers of the South Carolina upstate, because I'm so incredibly creative and that's such a catchy name.

Julie -

It's keyword. Easy to find. yes.

Emily -

And then I blasted that link everywhere that I could locally. So that particular page now has more than 350 local Mama's involved. This is not a nationwide page. This is people who are located in the upstate of South Carolina. And this is where I then post our book club even pages. So then on the event pages, I clearly post what we're reading about each month, and I very boldly shout that visitors are always welcome. So, you'll remember that originally we met at a community renovator fair. They renovated and removed their community ?? So then we moved to a friend's church where we are very graciously hosted each month in their fellowship hall. When they have scheduling conflicts at the church, we meet a Panera. And Panera is fun because there is coffee and there is food. But it's a little hard to have real conversations there so, I truly prefer the church space.

On special occasions, we might have a snack to share. We might have coffee and tea, but truly for the most part, we just keep that part simple. Everyone's on different diaphragms. Anyway, some people drink caffeine, some people don't. Some people eat peanuts, some people eat gluten, some people don't. And so, you know, if you're thirsty, bring yourself another bottle. Feel free to...

Julie -

Keep it as low key as possible.

Emily -

It's true. It has. And then you know, I do bring chocolate occasionally because chocolate makes everything better. But we do, we keep it simple.

Julie -

And I do like how each month, a different mom takes a turn decorating the table and making it beautiful and they'll bring in some of the stuff that they've been doing at home. Maybe it's a nature journal, or a handicraft, or some of the books they've been reading. And it's just encouraging to see what other people are doing. But it also makes the atmosphere pretty... you know, some...

Emily -

We use the word "gaze worthy".

Julie -

Yes.

Emily -

But, we ask for a volunteer each month, to make the table gaze worthy. And then, the... beyond it just being beautiful, it serves as our ice breaker for every meeting. Because I just ask that Mama, just tell me why you chose these particular items to bring. Is this embroidery new, you know? And then learn that their little six-year-old has just learned a couple of stitches. Or these are holly branches from my yard because they're pretty, right? It serves as a really nice ice breaker and it's a really sweet time, just to see, just again, reminding all of us, I'm just a mom, right? And I'm coming alongside you. You're just a mom. But, in faith, and with faithfulness, we're gonna keep trying this together.

Julie -

Well, that's one of the reasons why I wanted you on. I just think it's been so encouraging for our book club, the humbleness that you have brought to the club. I think it's different. I've been a part of things before, where you go in and the person leading it's like, okay, I'm the expert and so then that's kind of intimidating. You don't wanna say the wrong answer, or I read it this, I don't know what the correct answer is, but because you have been so humble and gracious, then people have been like, well I think it's this and then someone else will say, well I think it's this... you know. And there's not this... I don't know, kind of overarching, like pragmatic, this is way it must be feeling, I don't think until I think new people are encouraged to come and kind of explore and understand the method. But you also are very good about bringing it back to, okay, I think this is what Charlotte Mason is saying here. And staying true to, you know, her method overall. Which I appreciate. And I know that's a very fine line.

Emily -

It is. And that's one that we just pray over and want everyone to feel more comfortable. We want everyone to feel like they don't have to put on their Sunday best to show up at our table, right? And they don't have to pretend that they've understood something that they don't understand.

Julie -

Yes.

Emily -

And so, come with your questions. Come with the, I have no idea what she said there, can somebody help me?

Julie -

Yes. And I think that's just so encouraging. Yes.

Emily -

Well, ??/ is, you'll have times when people will say, oh I found this thing and it's totally Charlotte Mason. And then she'll go on to express it, and it has nothing to do with Charlotte Mason because that particular person hasn't read enough of Charlotte's words. Maybe she's read about Charlotte, but hasn't actually read Charlotte's words. And so I think it's also pretty critical to keep our focus on not what our opinions are, or what our opinions of what Charlotte Mason said are, but truly just keep going back to what did Charlotte say, what did Charlotte do in that regard, and we're aiming for that. None of us are there, none of us has arrived. But if you come home with me tomorrow, you will see that I am not doing this very beautifully at all, actually. But, I continue to read, and I continue to write. And I continue to practice.

Julie -

And grow.

Emily -

Yes.

Julie -

And you don't have to have it all figured out on day one.

Emily -

Right. We are looking toward Charlotte. We are aiming toward Charlotte. And we are very honest with the fact that we aren't there yet. But these goals are worth trying.

Julie -

Yeah. And I think that, new people appreciate that, but also, you know, just inspires you that you want to come alongside of someone and learn this together. And that we're kind of all in this together I feel like. Because it can feel very isolating and alone when you're in your house and you're trying to do this, and you go, you met any other homeschool moms on the playground, or something like that, but they're doing something completely different. And you explain what you're doing with Charlotte Mason and they look at you like you have three heads. And so, having that community is so important. But that you don't have to be an expert to start your own book club and learn with other people. And I think that's just such a great lesson from what you've done.

Emily -

Right. I really... my job is just sit there as a facilitator, though you know me and so you know that I won't show up without having read. And

Julie -

Yes. But also, sets a great example and it keeps other people reading as well. It really does.

Emily -

But also, regularly, post pictures of me reading the night before, yes.

Julie -

It does matter.

Emily -

It's only 9 o'clock, you can do your book. We're reading tomorrow, right? So, again it's a balance. It's... you have my complete commitment to making this work. I'm going to do my side and I hope that you can too. And so, actually, somebody said recently, she really appreciates, she's not a reader. And the fact that we welcome her to her our table because she just needs to listen. She needs to hear, based on how God has ?? her. But, someone else also said recently, how they keep coming back because everybody's reading, right?

Julie -

Yes. I do appreciate that.

Emily -

Yeah. So... again, I mean we're all different. We have all of our strengths together, and we're.gonna work through this. So, for myself, I don't have all the answers. And when I first sat down with Charlotte, I didn't understand everything I was reading either. I don't understand everything now, but...

Julie -

I was gonna say... there's still stuff that I read and I have to read it three times.

Emily -

It does get easier.

Julie -

Yeah.

Emily -

You know, once you have made it through a whole... a nice volume, they just keep coming. And you think about yourself, looking back, that you thought that this was so tricky because it starts to make sense. There's just so many big parts.

Julie -

Yes. For sure.

Emily -

So, I'm a facilitator and I'm a co-learner. Not a teacher. You're not coming to me because I've figured it out. I just have a lot of questions and I figured, if you ask your questions, and I ask my questions, we'll talk about it together. We're blessed, there are some moms in our group who have journeyed with their kids. They started early with Charlotte Mason, and their kids are high school age now, so they're hopeful.

But, just getting together and fleshing it out, using tools like narration, to say this is what I read.

Julie -

Yes.

Emily -

And I can tell you about it. So those are really great tools. So, you asked for some tips. One of the things we have talked about that we appreciate for our group is that we are consistent with our meeting time. So our particular group, in Greenville, if you're out there listening, we meet on the third Tuesday...

Julie -

Hey, Greenville, we're awesome, you should come! Even if you don't live in Greenville, you should move here.

Emily -

Yes! Absolutely! But, oh... everybody else is apparently. So, we meet in the evenings, which works for us. It's not going to work for everybody. But it works for us because, for me, I... my husband gets home, we eat a quick dinner together, and then he's in charge of bedtime for our kids. Or perhaps, you could have another caregiver put the kids to bed. We meet from seven to nine, officially. We often linger with our smaller groups, chats a little longer. But I try to be very good about starting at seven and finishing at nine, because I wanna say this is what I said I would do, I'm going to do it. I said I'm going to read. I will read.

And so I'm going to start on time, and finish on time. And I do that. So, I found that this just provides a really nice mother's evening out opportunity. And again, these won't work for everyone. When I ask someone, they say, oh, yes I know about your group, but I just can't make it, and I ask why. The answer has been that evenings are tough, right? Some of them works at night, maybe dad travels a lot. Maybe there are no other caregivers. Maybe you're just tired. Right? There's lots of good reasons why evenings won't work, but it works for us. We don't deviate from our meeting time, I don't schedule around particular holidays. We just... we meet. And if you can come, come. And if you cannot, then I'll see you next month.

Julie -

Right.

Emily - And the way that we look at it, we have let husbands in. I consider it fun. It's in between the books. When we just need a breather. We have done a night of handicrafts and so, that is a breather.

Julie -

And it's usually in the summer, so it's... people's schedules are not... yeah...

Emily -

Yeah, and so we just come together and, you know, we've made soap. Someone taught a little watercolor class. Someone tried to teach us to crochet. Some of us did better than others.

Julie -

I made a really nice circle. I didn't do anything else with the circle, but, it was a circle. I'm proud of it.

Emily -

But, other people were able to take off, better than I was, so... I think that's key. First... okay, so, what are our tips? You're just a co-learner. You just have to be willing to be the person who says, I will be here on this night. I will have read my book.

Julie -

Yes. Consistent.

Emily -

Yes. And I would love to talk with you about it. I don't know where we're going, and I don't know everything that Charlotte said, but I would love a friend to just walk through this with me. And what was it, fourteen people or something like that, showed up on the very first night. And so, recently someone said, remember if you build it, they will come. That's what we did. Secondly, I try to do what I say I was going to do. So, I just stepped out in faith. But then it requires a little bit of faithfulness. Very little maintenance, right? I wanna read these books, that's the point. To read the book. And then, just remember that you're a co-learner, with humility.

Julie -

Which is really what Charlotte Mason's philosophy says for all learning, right? That only real education is self-education? So, we're educating ourselves as moms, and we're not, oh, come give me all the answers.

Emily -

Absolutely. I found a quote earlier today. Something that Nancy Kelly has referenced before. I think she may have even... I should have looked this up better. But she may have even done one of her blog series on this, but she quotes Isaac Tinley? Is that how we pronounce it?

Julie -

Sure.

Emily -

And it says it better than either of us could put this into words. Articulate it. She says that, "Attitude of all present, including those who can duck the meetings, should be one of finding out together what is best for children. The leader must have faith, the most ordinary father or mother has much to contribute. Be in the chair, rather than in the pulpit." I'm praying that was for me. "Determine that each talk shall give real opportunity for meeting mind to mind experience shared. A sense of hostess-ship and hospitality is needed. Giving a welcome, making everyone at ease, introducing them to ideas, and thoughts previously. Keeping a happy orderliness in proceedings. A kindly sincerity encourages discussion and kindles initiative in individual listeners."

And I feel like is what we have been able to pull together.

Julie -

So that quote about, like, doing Charlotte Mason...

Emily -

Yes. So she... I'm sure will lift my memory and my facts, she was... she created this guide that would then allow people to go through this series of talks. To share Charlotte Mason. And I'm quite sure that I heard about that through Nancy Kelly, so I'm going to look for a link to that if that would be helpful. Absolutely.

And so with that in mind, it's not my job to monopolize... cause I'm being so wordy. But my job is to be a hostess or a facilitator. Pray over questions that are going to start discussion, right? Sometimes, it's just...

Julie -

People narrate and they just start talking, right.

Emily -

Because as you reference... yes. People are born persons. That's something I'm learning to practice at home. I practice it at my book club table, right? People are born persons. We trust ideas. Well, the ideas have been laid out in front of all of us. And so, as we narrate those ideas just come forth and questions come forth. There's questions in the back of Charlotte Mason's works. I very rarely refer to them because the conversations just lead themselves. Because we've all read, we've all invested the time, and it's worth it for us to take an evening out of our lives to come talk about this together. And so the ideas just take on a life of their own. So they just need that safe and welcoming atmosphere, as you mentioned, humility, vulnerability. Just being honest.

Something else that's helped us is a core group of members in the community. That helped us gain traction, that it wasn't just me that kept showing up. I don't know why, but more people just kept showing up, right? And so we are growing together while we were welcoming newbies. Even, already mentioned that we looked for balance and staying on topic, right? But when the Holy Spirit moves... if the Holy Spirit is the mother's key, the Holy Spirit is gonna guide us in our book club also, right? So, when the Holy Spirit moves, I need to be willing to let go of my agenda.

Julie -

That's good. Yeah. That's hard. For people like me... I don't know about you, but...

Emily -

Yes. Well, again I think there's a balance. But that's... there are several times that I have no idea what that person's even saying, because I have gotten into the closet of my mind, right? Lord, just reign it back in when it needs to be reigned in. And other times you know that that person said something that ended up being what the Mama beside her needed hear. And so those are... and that's just His thing, it's not mine. I'm gonna trust the Lord with the results. Both the big ones and the small ones. He has ownership over fellowship, right? And He is joy. He gives us the faithfulness, the knowledge and the wisdom. These are gifts from Him alone. They're not mine. So I trust Him with the results.

Julie -

That's good. I'm gonna read... so you posted, in our little Facebook group, asking people to talk about, kind of, their experience with the group. And so I wanted to read some of these, because I really appreciated what they had to say about this... some of the benefits that they receive from the book club. I could talk about myself, personally, but I think it's good to hear from some other people as well.

So one of the ladies said, Over time, the positive effects grew to the point that I never wanted to miss. The group helped me to get over my perfectionism and realize that small changes over time were worthwhile and powerful. Another person said, I wouldn't have just showed up to a book club, as I'm not much of a reader, and I don't feel I don't have much to offer in discussions, but the grace that was offered - and she came to that meeting we had in May, just opening up to the community, to the people who were interested in finding out about Charlotte Mason - The honestly in the way that everyone is on their journey, but not trying to be perfect. Which again, goes back to the humility and vulnerability part which is so key.

And then, she said, I was amazed with the breadth of knowledge and experience of the woman at the club. It kept me accountable to read. You think you're the only one in your friend group whose life has been changed by Charlotte Mason, and perhaps you feel alone. You are not alone. You just haven't met those friends yet. Or perhaps you've a few friends, but you struggle with peace in implementing the method. A monthly check-in, discussing the volumes with other moms goes a long way. In an evening a month to discover you are a human. And so are all the other moms around you. Your mistakes and weaknesses are not super unique, and perhaps you get a hand full of practical ideas to help. But most of all, you get a moment to step out of the weeds and out of your own and receive encouragement towards peace and trust in the Holy Spirit's working in your home. And that...

Emily -

That's beautiful.

Julie -

Mic drop. Yeah. Right there. That is why you need this community and you need people to study the volumes together. And I was thinking that, you know, back when Charlotte Mason was running the PNEU, that parents that wanted to get her syllabi every term, you know, they were committing that they had read her works before they got that. So they just didn't get a list of books, and were like, okay, I'm gonna start doing this in my home. They had committed that, I've read your works, Charlotte, I agree with what you're saying here. I understand the methods to teach these different subjects.

And so, as homeschool parents, you know, we have that obligation, I think, too. To invest in our own education if we're gonna be using this method in our home. And doing it with other people certainly does make it seem less daunting, doesn't it?

Emily -

It absolutely does. So, you mentioned earlier, I mentioned earlier, that when you first pick up Charlotte's words, they can be a little difficult to understand. And if it's okay for me to mention that we started with ?? Start Here Guide.

Julie -

Yes, that was very helpful.

Emily -

It was really helpful. So, what I would find was I would read the chapter that we had decided to read. By the way, I haven't mentioned that we read about 30 pages. That was something that Liz Catrill mentioned. Yeah. She... so from her book club, and wherever she was leading hers. She mentioned that they read about 30 pages. So, that's the goal that we go for.

Julie -

A month. Yeah.

Emily -

Yeah, each month. That's what we discuss each time we get together. So, we could read the chapter and have no idea what it said. And then we could read Brandy's guide, and she links blog posts better written and a little, maybe, more modernly, which... or with examples that we would understand a little better. And so I would go through her guide and then I could go back and read the same chapter again, and it would just make more sense to me. So, I see that.

So we started with volume six because that's what was recommended to me with the Start Here Guide. And I saw, earlier today, I looked at Brandy's site, and she actually has a study guide for Volume one now as well. So, I thought... yeah, I'm not in a particular camp as to which book you should read first. I know that's gonna be question that you get. We started with Volume six, and we have kept our momentum. You know, we went from six, to one, to two, to three. And, but, I would say, when you are first getting started using a guide, whether it be Brandy's or someone else's, she provides discussion questions, she has really great information about what it means to be the hostess. So, that really helps. She just modeled it over her own group in California. Tells us how hers works and then we looked at that, and just tweaked it for what's helping us.

Julie -

Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that, because that's great for people who are trying to get this started, but just need a little bit of a guided help. That was really helpful, so I'm glad you brought that point up.

Well, we are almost out of time. But one of the other things that we do in our book club is bringing in a time for the families and the children to meet together. So do you wanna talk a little bit about the natural history club, and how that relates to the book club?

Emily -

Sure. So, again I don't really have very many original ideas, I'm just really good at synthesizing information and copying what has been successful for other people, so we model our book club originally with the Start Here Guide. And in the same way, again, back to the Grace to Build retreat, I sat in one of the emergent session with Cherish Drupal, and she told us how her group managed nature study. The natural district club history club. And so I typed up all those notes and I blasted them everywhere saying what do you guys think? Could we do something like this? And so, we do, we meet once a month.

So the book club is only for the Mamas who are reading. So, we get together once a month to discuss the chapters that we have read together. And then once a month, on the first Friday, it happens to be for us... on the first Friday, at once o'clock... again that's a time that does not change.

Julie -

Yes. So I appreciate that.

Emily -

Right? If it's raining, put on a raincoat, right? And if it's unsafe, then stay home, by all means. But, we don't change it on a whim. We just say this is when we meet. And we get together. We had actually a really fun time in the woods in Spartanburg with a Professor from the university there. And it poured... But you know what the kids...

Julie -

They're gonna remember that, yes.

Emily -

We're puddle jumping, right? So every kid loves to puddle jump, right? So, and, there wasn't any group ?? But, so we keep constant with our time. We keep consistent with our date, and what we have done is just broadcast loudly that we are learning to see together. Because that's another favorite quote from Charlotte Mason, basically, right? What once... this is a terrible paraphrase, but what right do we have to pass through this incredible world without stopping to take notice and learning to see. Right? And so that has guided our natural history club. If you come to book club, you are welcome to come to nature study with your kids. And that wasn't actually my original idea. That was somebody from another founding member, said, well as soon as you said nature study, everybody's gonna wanna come. They might not be willing to read the books with you. They'll wanna play in the woods with you, right?

Julie -

And get out of the house with their kids, yes.

Emily -

But we all know that everyone learns differently, right? And your goals in nature study are going to be different. And so, I'm a people-pleaser. And so it really bothered me to say, well this is exclusive. Well, it's not that it's exclusive. What it is, is it's a very specific time that the people who are in book club come together to practice the principles. Right? And so together, we are talking to our children as though they are born persons because they are. And we are practicing atmosphere in the woods. We're practicing in the woods. We are practicing living ideas out in the woods. And so we have utilized resources from ??? obviously Nicole Williams, ??? has done really great things with helping Mamas get out into nature with their children. And we have a... an object lesson, a five to eight minutes right at the beginning. And where we just kinda say, look at this today, or look for this today. And then we turn them loose. Again, there's no guide, right? I'm not the director, I'm not the teacher.

But if we have time, there's a funny story. On Friday, I went into the bathroom at the public park where we were, and I heard one of our group mothers with her little tiny girl who's probably three. Is someone coming to lead us today? Yes. How did she know so much about the woods? I'm not sure honey, but we're in a hurry. And so then at the object lesson, I overheard this today, but I have to tell you, there is no leader, cause we're all learning to see together.

But these are just some things that I have been noticing and I wonder if they'll notice them too, right? And so, the kids just narrate back to me. This time it was, what do you know about rain? Right? What do you know about the winter sky? And they're so excited to tell us. They're teaching each other and then they go out and they see together. They make time to run, because... yes. The boys are going to pick up sticks and use them as swords, right? They're going to do those things. But they're also going to know this... mushrooms. And for us, the great blue heron nests, right? We also observe those in the park where we go. So, some really extraordinary things have happened, but again, not... I just fell off of the great work already done ahead of us, right? By ladies like Sherry, like Coleson.

Julie -

And for people who already have something, where they might already have a nature club, or they might already have a group that meets at the park, you know? That could easily involve into a book club if you already have that community that's already meeting at some point. You know, doing it in reverse, and going, okay, let's all start studying our Volumes together now.

Emily -

Absolutely. And so, for families that reach out to me and say, well, I could come if you did it during the day. Again, I'm a people pleaser. I said, okay, I'll try to fit that in, right? So, another one. Or, we talked before that we started recording. That I feel like there's so many wonderful things that we would love to do, as were there some challenges for me, as that I wanna be everywhere, all the time.

Julie -

I think that's every homeschool mom's challenge, right? Yes, there's so much good things out there, which is fantastic. We have so many more resources than we did when I first started homeschooling. But yes, it can be very overwhelming to decide.

Emily -

It is.

Julie -

Yeah.

Emily -

But God has called me to do this. God called me to facilitate this book group. And it doesn't sound like that's such a great calling.

Julie -

Oh, it very much is.

Emily -

It is my calling and I am so thankful for it. And it's not me, it's all the Lord. I take no glory. It's all the Lord. He didn't call me to start a co-op. He didn't call me to have a broadcast. He didn't call to do any of these other things. He didn't, at this point in time, call me to have a daytime book club. He called me to help this book club keep traction. But I am more than happy to help someone else start a daytime club. So, who says, well it's too far away from my house. Could we bring it closer to me? I would very gladly help you start a club closer to you, right.

And one more challenge I'm going to touch on. I actually asked for feedback on one of our pages, and a mom sent me a private message and she said, I don't come because I don't feel I'm Charlotte Mason enough. And it really broke my heart, and I answered her back, I said that's something specifically I've prayed against. Right? You are welcome at our table. Just read alongside and we will get there. Right? Lord willing, we will get there. There's no such thing as "enough".

Julie -

I'm not Charlotte Mason enough, I don't feel like, most of the time, so...

Emily -

And that's something I just keep reminding everybody. We're coming here because we wanna be the best moms that we can be. We wanna be the best homeschool moms. We don't wanna let our kids down. We wanna make sure we're giving them a wide feast.

One of the greatest blessings of this book club has been how the Lord is changing me from the inside out. We sat down to read this books so I could learn how to teach my kid the new math, right? So that I could learn to teach my kids Living Books. No. The Lord has changed me from the inside out, praise God. And so, whether you are Charlotte Mason enough or not, please just come sit beside me and we will journey together. Because the Lord is doing great things.

Julie -

I approach it from that kind of growth mindset of, I'm all... I don't ever wanna be Charlotte Mason enough. Because then I won't be learning, right? There's always room for me to grown and improve on how I'm homeschooling my kids. And every time I read her volumes, I see stuff that I did not see before. And information and connections and you know, all the things we talk about with our children, right? That's happening to us. Because her work is changing us, and us learning these things alongside our children and being exposed to these people of the world, and beautiful art and music. It's shaping our souls at the same time it's shaping theirs, which is so encouraging like you said.

So, we don't ever arrive. Hallelujah, right? Yes. Very much so. So thank you so much for coming to my house today, that was so fun. And talking about this, I am so thankful, and I hope some moms have been encouraged to jump in and try to start a book club for themselves. Before we finish, do you have a favorite Charlotte Mason quote? I know you've shared some of them already. It's hard to pick one, isn't it?

Emily -

So, at that, again, the very first retreat, Liz Catrill, I believe, it was Liz's message... no, it was Sonya's message. They may have both referenced it actually. But the quote about basically as mothers, how are you gonna do it? Right? We can't. But, that mother's work wonders when they realize that wonders are required. Right? So, what I love about book club is that I would sit in my house and feel paralyzed that I could not, in fact, work the wonders. Cause there was grace missing in me. There was diligence and I am terrible about habits. Like, all of these things were missing in me. So there were no wonders to be worked.

But through this book club, I have partnered with other mamas and they are teaching me so much, and Charlotte's words are teaching me so much. And the wonders are happening with the Holy Spirit as our mother's key, I've realized the wonders that are required of me. And our family has been changed.

Julie -

Yes, very much so. I so appreciate that. Thank you again for taking the time to talk to us. Bye, everyone.

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