MOST POPULAR | Freedom in a Charlotte Mason Education (with Leah Boden) | REPLAY
Show Notes:
As we prepare for season six of The Charlotte Mason Show, we are bringing back a few of our most popular episodes in a midseason mini-series!
In this podcast, Julie talks with Leah Boden about:
- How she came to the simplicity of Charlotte Mason’s methods
- Ways to face the challenges of comparing your homeschool to others
- Feeling overwhelmed
- The importance of patience in seeing the fruit of a Charlotte Mason education
“The next element is confidence. Parents should trust themselves more. Everything is not done by restless endeavor. The mere blessed fact of the parental relationship and of that authority which belongs to it, by right and by nature, acts upon the children as do sunshine and shower on a seed in good soil.” (Volume 3, School Education p. 29)
“Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28)
Guest biography
Leah is a long-time follower of Jesus, wife to Dave, and mom to four children. She and her husband are lead pastors of Mosaic Church and home educators who have been using the Charlotte Mason method for 12 years. She teaches at Modern Miss Mason and is the author of Moments on Mothering. Leah loves good books with a large cup of coffee, her daily dose of nature, travel, and being home with her family.
Host biography
Julie H. Ross believes that every child needs a feast of living ideas to grow intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually. As a former school teacher, curriculum coordinator, and assistant director of a homeschool academy, Julie has worked with hundreds of students and parents over the past 20 years. She has also been homeschooling her own five children for over a decade. Julie developed the Charlotte Mason curriculum, A Gentle Feast, to provide parents with the tools and resources needed to provide a rich and abundant educational feast full of books, beauty, and Biblical truth. Julie lives in South Carolina. When she’s not busy homeschooling, reading children’s books, hiking, or writing curriculum, you can find her taking a nap.
Resources
Charlotte Mason Companion by Karen Andreola
Matthew 14:22-33 (Jesus walks on the water)
Connect
Leah Boden | Website | Instagram | Facebook
Julie Ross | Instagram
A Gentle Feast | Instagram | Facebook | YouTube | Website
Homeschooling.mom | Instagram | Website
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A Gentle Feast: a Charlotte Mason curriculum for the entire family
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Show Transcript:
Julie -
Welcome to the Charlotte Mason Show, a podcast dedicated to discussing Ms. Mason's philosophy, principles, and methods. It is our hope that each episode will leave you inspired and offer practical wisdom on how to provide this rich, living education in your modern homeschool. So, pull up a chair. We're glad you're here.
Today's episode of the Charlotte Mason is brought to you by Medi-Share. Find out more about this affordable, Christian alternative to traditional health insurance at MediShare.com.
Hello, welcome to the Charlotte Mason Show. I'm your host, Julie Ross, and today, I am here with a very special guest. And I am super excited. Leah Boden, all the way from the UK, is coming to talk to us today. Hey Leah.
Leah -
Hey Julie, so great to be here.
Julie -
Yes, I'm so excited. I've been a huge... I don't know if you know this. I've been a huge fan of yours back from the Periscope days.
Leah -
Well, that's when the old began didn't it?
Julie -
Yes.
Leah -
I mean...
Julie -
What year was that? Do you remember? But it was a while.
Leah -
I feel like it was 1990, but of course, it wasn't.
Julie -
Right now, all the days are going together. I don't know what planet I'm on, what year it is.
Leah -
I just know I had very young children and yeah. And obviously you and I met in Nashville, didn't we? We have met once, in real life, which was great. Yes.
Julie -
It was so fun. It's such a great community. Yeah, so tell our listeners just about yourself and your family. And then kind of a little bit of how you got started with Charlotte Mason, since that's what we're gonna talk about.
Leah -
Sure. Okay. So, we live in England, and we live in Borich shire, which is right in the middle of the UK. I'm originally from Yorkshire. I'm a Northern girl, but we've been here a long time now. Kind of raised our family here in the Midlands.
We have four children, my husband and I. And two boys, two girls. My eldest is gonna be 18 this year and my youngest is nine. So, we have that wide range there. We have been home educating for thirteen, fourteen years, something like that. And kind of when it... after a decade, it all merges into one. Yes. And
J -
That's how I feel. Like, how long ya been homeschooling? I'm like, a long time. Close together after a while. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
L -
And, yeah, so we, when we started homeschooling, it was not really a known thing her in England. And we, my eldest daughter went into the public-school system for one year. As she went into preschool, we call a nursery, I guess it's like kindergarten age. And I remember walking down the street, taking her to this first day of her nursery, and they have to wear like a little uniform, which is so British, so British.
J -
When I was in London, I was like, these kids are the cutest things I've ever seen. Like all the little kids walking to school in their uniforms. Oh!
L -
Yeah, and I'm sure... yeah. It's...I'm sure ??? may have been private schools. This wasn't a private school, but she was so little. And she had this bag for her books. And I was walking down, and I suddenly remembered this flashback of being in my early 20's, I spent a year in the states. After I graduated from university, I went a year of Bible College, kind of a Bible college course, in St. Louis, Missouri.
And so, I'm in my early 20's, and I come across these families who apparently were homeschooling. I'd never come across homeschool families before. And I was just balled over really, kind of amazed at how, just friendly these kids were. How engaged they were in conversation with adults. How bright they were and interesting. And I kind of started to ask a lot of questions and so, I remember thinking... this is before I was married, I didn't know Dave. And I remember thinking, this is great, I'd love to do this one day. This is a possibility for me.
So here I am, flashback. Flash forward now, to me walking my daughter to her nursery class, and I suddenly felt... I didn't wanna do this. This was not my plan. But obviously I had not had that conversation with my husband. Which is kind of important.
J -
Yeah, kind of.
L -
So really, you know, long story cut short, Dave and I spent two years. So, Nia was in nursery and reception year. So really, the preschool years here in the UK. She spent in this local school, whilst we really decided, we said if we're gonna do this, if we're gonna homeschool, we're gonna do it full on. Because I jumped straight in, but we need to know it's the right decision.
So, you know, we began to research. I wanted to make within... I would have pulled her out that day, and kind of stuff. Dave, you know, it was good to have him by my side saying, hang on, let's just spend some time... And also, because nobody else was doing it, we knew one other family. And can you imagine, one other family? And doing it, so, thus began my no end of research. It's on. We'll... I'm sure many people listening are like, yep, I remember that stage. When you start Googling everything or, whatever it was back then.
And I very early on in my searching came across this name, Charlotte Mason. And I think what struck me initially was that she was British. Because so much of my research and, I guess, the kind of, the curriculums that were available and what people were encouraging me to use were American. Which they would be, because, you know, the homeschooling movement was really pioneered in the states. So, we were kind of picking up on the, you know, the coattails of what people in the states were doing.
And so, I came across Charlotte Mason, thought oh, she was British. This is great. Started to research her. But then, obviously, all the blogs and the people who had used her philosophy in their homeschool were American. So, I was kind of, how does this match up? And, cause I mean, when you went down the beautiful rabbit hole, I'm so glad I did, and I looked around a few of the things, but I just couldn't get away from this incredible educational philosophy. That suited my personality. It really lined up with a lot my childhood and I wasn't home educated, obviously. But the British school system was, in the 70's and 80's, you know, you had your nature table. You had reading corners. You would sit and have a read aloud once a day. It really seemed to fit with the childhood I had growing up in Yorkshire.
And so, I... so Dave and I, you know, we exchanged books and research papers and things that we were looking at...
J -
I just... that's just so cute! I can just see...
L -
Oh yeah.
J -
The two of you... cups of tea. Passing the little snack...
L -
Often, Julie, with me, I remember that the funniest thing was, I sent him this email that said 50 Reasons to Homeschool. And at this point, he wasn't listening to me. So he takes his time and started to kind of rebuttal all these... and he tells the story, he got to kind of, I don't know, fifteen, sixteen, and he ran out of reasons not to... you know, why we shouldn't do this. And he's like, okay. This is probably a good idea.
So, we used, you know, I began reading. As quick as I could find them, I bought these six pink books that are still on my desk today. And falling apart. Well-wrinkled and well-able. And I just started up. I just loved it. And I was... at this time, I would have just had my third child in the July and the September and when he was a couple months old, we officially, you know, began our home educating. Even though, obviously, along with everybody else, I truly believe we began home educating from the moment we held our children in our arms.
So yes, that's when we got into it. Kind of a bit of a long-winded answer but, yeah, that was our lovely beginnings really.
J -
Yeah. Well, that's great though, that, like, you kind of were able to talk through that together and be on the same page. I think that's really key. And I think it's really hard, sometimes, to explain Charlotte Mason's philosophy. Like, boil it down to... people have a hard time like explaining to their spouse, like, you're gonna do what?
L -
Yes. You know, we hadn't known anything different within homeschooling. It wasn't like Dave was looking at other people saying, well they do it this way and they do it this way. All we knew was the British school system, and you know, our decision wasn't... we didn't choose to home educate because we didn't approve of the British school system. We chose to home educate because we could. We got this opportunity to actually give our children room to grow and develop at their own stage and pace.
And so, he was like, hey this looks good, let's do this. Which I did. And still do.
J -
Yeah, that's great. And it is hard. I mean, I kind of struggled my first several years of homeschooling, trying to figure out just what she actually said. And how to implement that in real life.
L -
Yeah.
J -
And how do these different kind of methods approach to this subject and that, you know? And so how do you kind of... I mean, it just kind of sounds like you were kind of really on your own, having to do all that. That's amazing.
L -
Yeah. I was. I very... the first person I came across who was a little bit more of a local to everybody else. Actually, I was skimming through some blogs, and I came across somebody called Lynn Seddon. And
J -
Yes! I've had her on the podcast! Yeah!
L -
And I was reading through her blog, which is still to this day called Raising Little Shoots. And I thought, oh this girl sounds English. So, I emailed her and now her oldest daughter is a couple of months older than mine. So, she was a similar stage to me. But she had formally started a little bit... just...she was lucky. Six months ahead of me. So, I just messaged her and she started to talk about Charlotte Mason in one of her blog posts. And I said, where did you start? ??? And then her lovely nature group and what can probably predict her answer. She just said start with nature study.
So, and really, the way I did it, Julie, is anybody who knows me and knows how I teach the philosophy, I try and keep it as simple as possible. I don't really over complicate very much. And I, you know, you... I think, the longer I have studied her work, and delved into what that actually looks like, the more I've been to simplify it. Which is, you know, which is a bit of a skill really in the end.
But what I did was, I would learn something and then implement it. So, you know, I did sort of take on this idea of well, I'm not, you know, it's not actually possible for me to spend four, five, six hours outside with our children. So, what is the element of truth I can take from that, that I can apply today? Okay, well, be outside as long as you can. So, that was the first thing that I started to implement was, let's spend lots of time outdoors. Let's... I want to make sure my children are looking around them and observing their surroundings. And then we'll just remember a few things. And then record them when we get home.
And just simply, just kind of this habit of observation, and the habit of attention, were very key in the beginnings of our journey, really. So, then I would read some more. I mean narration is kind of one of my... it's a superpower really. I think it's one of the incredible...
J -
It's amazing, yes.
L -
... of the philosophy that I could talk about all night. But I kind of grasped that very, very early. And started to, with my oldest children as they grew, just, you know, as they were six plus, started to implement that. Learn how to use that as a tool. And just flew with that really. I just loved that.
So, I think what I did was, rather than say, how do I do all of this now? I... because my children were young enough... and I say this all the time, to mothers with young children, these are your golden years.
J -
Oh yes.
L -
You get to take it slow. You're not having to prove to any kind of education authority what you're doing. You get to let them play whilst you read a little bit of the... you know, read a little bit of school education or home education. And then you get to implement what you're learning. And that's how I did it. So, I would read something, I would kind of digest it and assimilate it myself. And I guess, really, a form of narration as a mother is actually putting into practice what you're learning from the philosophy itself.
And I, you know, I just took it a day at a time and I didn't over plan. I think I did that later, when I ??? And then very quickly, backtracked. It's crazy. I should see it from years ago. I laugh at it now, thinking what was I thinking?
But those beautiful simple days at the beginning were very much just, you know, being outside when we could, as much as possible. Reading beautiful stories. Reading poetry. And just giving my children time to learn and grow as I was learning and growing. I think that's how I started.
J -
That's fantastic. I love that so much. I think there's so much pressure these days, because there is so much information out there now that it's... mothers with young children feel like they can't start home educating until they have it all figured out. And...
L -
Right.
J -
I'm like, well, most of us just jumped in the deep end and we learned how to swim.
L -
It's... I'm not... and you know... I'm really, you know, for me particular, I was pioneering here. Alongside many others eventually over the country, we all began this pioneering process. But yeah. You have to jump in. And that's where you've got to look at the principles and not just the kind of academic theory of what you think it should look like. Cause you're a parent first. You're a mother first. And that nurturing of sitting and reading and listening. That really is a parenting tool.
And I think we overthink a lot of this. We really do. And it can... that's where you get stressed out, you know. People who... and you know, people who talk about homeschool burnout, it's generally because their expectations are so high, they cannot possibly reach them themselves. Which is sad. I find that really sad.
J -
Oh yeah, definitely. Me too. Well, you mentioned about Charlotte Mason's principles. And, you know, she have 18 to 20-ish, but, out of those, is there one that particularly is important to you that you've implemented in your home that you'd wanna talk about?
L -
Yeah. Goodness, I mean, they're all...
J -
Yeah, right?
L -
Yeah. And also, it's a lifetime of work, honestly. I'm still kind of... I'm constantly reading and studying. I've always got ??? on my desk. And
J -
Yep. Yep, I love that, cause your kids see that.
L -
Yes.
J -
They see you are... Education's a life, right? We're always... I'm always learning too, guys. Yeah. We're in this together.
L -
Yes. Absolutely. That's right. And, but even just learning about her principles and implementing them and what that looks like in each season of parenting, and each season of raising our children. I think I'd have say, Julie, is children are born persons. I think that you cannot move forward until you've fully grasped that.
And this whole concept of, you know, for me, as a believer, as well, just knowing God created my children, whole, and as they are meant to be. So they're fully formed and I think when I... often we use words like shaping and molding. Which is interesting, cause those words are used a lot in parenting books and... but I, and I probably use to use those kind of words, but when I fully understood that children are born persons, I stopped using that kind of narrative. Because, what really, what we're doing is bringing out, laying this feast, creating an environment, creating a home life and a rhythm that allows our children's inner beings, who they already are, to come out. You know, to bring out the best of them.
And like she says, they are capable of good and evil. And hopefully, that we are laying the foundations, laying a feast, that would then bring out their beautiful personalities and characters and that we'd be able to see that formed through what we're doing with them. And I think that, just, I just think it's such an important concept. That actually children have a voice, they have a place in society right from the moment they're born. And not that we idolize, but that there's some hierarchy around it. But actually they are, they have worth and they have a voice. And it's something really amazing, when we grasp that and then we set up our home lives around that in a way... it helps our children form their identity.
And I've just seen great fruit from that. Yet, it's not perfect. It's not always easy. You know, and it's all... our children have to learn their own lessons, don't they? We all know that. They make their own mistakes. But, when we apply that to education, and to what we, you know, I mean, goodness, you could go down so many tunnels here, can't we? When we look at ??? activity and allowing them to bring their voice up. And I just think it's really powerful.
So, I just think, I can't really talk about any other principles without first, you know, that is the starting point. Is...
J -
Yeah, that's really great.
L -
Yeah.
J -
Yeah, it's principle number one for a reason. And then... it explains why she structured things the way that she did. Or why she included, like, narration, right? Is because I value what you have to say. It's important. And what you take out of this reading is yours and it's valuable, even if it's not what I think is the most important aspect of this lesson, right? Or this reading. Or that, because you're a whole person, you also need to nurture your ability, you know, to appreciate God's creation. Like you were talking about.
L -
That's right.
J -
From the outdoor time, it's not, this is an extra addon thing that's not really education. No, it is, because this is all who we are. Yeah. Everything. And I think it's really interesting, kind of like, in the time that we're living in now, so when we're recording this, both of us are under house arrest, because of COVID. And, I don't know about you, but, you know, I have a lot of neighbors who are like, I don't know how you've done this for this many years. Homeschooling is terrible, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, but what you're doing's not what I'm doing at home. Like, you're really doing...
L -
No.
J -
Like, distance learning.
L -
Yeah. It's so different.
J -
And, it's not a lifestyle.
L -
That's right.
J -
Like, the way that we learn is our whole lives, yeah. So, what are some challenges that you've faced in implementing Charlotte Mason's philosophy in your home? I'm sure there hasn't been any, right?
L -
I don't think the challenges are particularly around implementing the philosophy. I think the challenges are just raising children. You know, right?
J -
Yes. I'm like, my greatest challenge is myself. Okay.
L -
Yes. Absolutely. I obviously don't think I... because I don't overcomplicate it. Because I have slowly allowed myself to integrate the philosophy into our rhythms, into our life. And we've just gone with it.
I wouldn't say I have, you know, struggled with the philosophy itself. I think where people struggle is where they try to put on themselves somebody else's pattern. Somebody else's way of doing it. And I never did that. I haven't to this day.
But the struggle, I think, the challenges, have been maybe where my expectations have been too high. Maybe... and I... again, the struggle has been where I've maybe compared, you know? I've wanted my children to be experts. Experts at brush drawing or sloyd or, you know... and it's just not gonna happen. They're who they are.
And you know, I've tried, especially around things like handicrafts, you know, I cannot crochet to save my life. I'm just not made that way. And, but, maybe sit me down, I'll write you a poem, you know? We all have these skills, don't we? And I think that's where, I think the struggle probably has been where I've had these expectations that I have to integrate every element that the PNU did. Or every element listed in every one of her books. And freedom, the freedom has come when I've given myself permission to raise my children, you know. And not everybody else's, like not do the same way.
And so, I think, you know, there is no fault ??? the philosophy of itself. It's all that ??? isn't it? And unfortunately, we live... unfortunately and fortunately, we live in such a connected society that, you know, you wake up, you scroll your Instagram feed or, I've never been a Pinterest person, particularly, but I know some people who struggle with that. So, you kinda scroll on there and everything looks perfect and beautiful and everybody's making things and doing, you know, doing these amazing watercolors of the birds, and you can't possibly photograph yours, because they're so bad.
J -
Yes. If you'll notice, there's not too many of those pictures of those on my Instagram. I like to take pictures of, like, me and the kids, but it turns out like, our nature journals, you won't see those.
L -
And, it is interesting, you know, because when I, I've been to the ??? in ??? a number of times, which is a museum in the late district. And for those who don't know, it's called, it was set up by two sisters, the Arnett Sisters, and they have all the archives, Charlotte Mason archives there. And there are lots of archives from some of the PNEU schools that were around in that time.
And they... the things that they've archived are the best nature journals. And we often say to the guys in the library there, can you give us some normal ones to look at? Cause we wanna see if we possibly... and occasionally, they found some where they actually more resemble our children's nature journals.
J -
Oh that's good. That's good to know.
L -
Yes. It's real. They obviously saved all the best ones, I mean, that's what we do, don't we?
J -
Yeah. Well, I think of that, like if, in the back of School Education there's the appendix with all the exam answers, and I read those and I'm like, oh my, my kid's exam answers do not look anything like these exam answers, right? And I could get really, like, down on myself. Yeah. And that's why I love the book, Know and Tell, by Karen Glass, is she has these examples of student's narrations. And when I read through that, I'm like, we're doing great. Like, these kids...
L -
Yeah.
J -
...what we're doin'. You know? Like, you just... yeah, it's like a comparison thing. Yeah.
L -
It's a killer. And I think it's good to kinda do stuff in community and learn from each of them, but essentially, you know, we gotta work with who we've got in our home.
J -
Yes. And also, you and your own limitations, that's kinda something that I've really learned. I get questions like this all the time from people. Like, I'm failing, la, la, la, and I'm like, well why do you think that? Well, we never do brush drawing. Or, we haven't done nature study in two months, and I'm like, uh, me either. And they're like, really? I'm like, yeah!
L -
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
J -
And I'm like, I don't know how to do any of that. I don't know how to do ??? I can't sing worth a lick. I know nothing about music. But, you know, my kids are in choir and they take music lessons. Like, I can outsource things...
L -
Yeah...
J -
And maybe that isn't the exact way she taught it, but it they're still getting the concept, which is music appreciation.
L -
Right. Absolutely.
J -
...and learning how to sight read and, you know, I use to be all down on myself about the brush drawing thing. And then, my 16-year-old, about two years ago, just took it upon her own, like water coloring. She draws these beautiful watercolor flowers now. She taught herself...
L -
Oh, that's amazing.
J -
And i didn't have to do it. But for so many years, I stressed out about it. But like, and when you give your kids this wide feast, you're also giving them the skill to self-educate. And so that's...
L -
Absolutely.
J -
Like an interest to them. Actually, my 19 year old, I just got a text from her today, you know, this whole, like, being quarantined thing, I think's really gonna help bring out kid's creativity and imagination but, you know, she was never really into anything artistic. She does amazing photography but not like, painting stuff. Anyway, she texted me a picture a couple minutes ago, of this painting she did today. Like,
L -
Oh, that's brilliant!
J -
...never painted before in her life. You know? It's really good, you know?
L -
That's amazing.
J -
But I think we get so down on ourselves cause we're not following x, y, z, or checking off these boxes. But that's not the point. The point, like you were saying, is that our children are persons. We're nurturing and giving them this wide feast. And what... they're gonna take what they need to take, but we're also teaching them how to self-educate that they can grow up and learn some of these things they may have never learned before.
Also my 16 year old, we never got to like, do music with her. And she just decided like a year ago, she wanted to learn music theory. I'm like, great.
L -
Aw, that's great.
J -
You know? Like, you know, those things can come, but it's... what can I do with the children I currently have with the time that I have? And then my personality as well?
L -
Yes. Yeah, and we can't expect our children to be thriving in something that we know nothing about. Unless we can outsource it. Or unless, you know, my 15-year-old son, he's taught himself guitar and piano. You just won't know where.. you just kinda get on with it. So it was on guitar first, then he figured out the chords on the piano, because he knew them on the guitar, and now he's writing songs and you know, writing music and stuff. And, yeah. You think, well, just get on with it, I mean. They're amazing aren't they? They are born persons and they're incredible human beings who do have that capability.
J -
Yeah.
Today's episode is brought to you by A Gentle Feast. A Gentle Feast is a complete curriculum for grades one through twelve that is family centered, inspired by Ms. Mason's programs and philosophy, and rooted in books, beauty, and Biblical truth. You can find out how smooth and easy days are closer than you think at AGentleFeast.com.
Going back to your early days with your little ones here, is there something that you wish you would have known back then?
L -
I think really probably more of just what we've been saying, is that you don't have to do everything all in one go. And yes, I did simplify, yes I did implement as I learnt. But there probably were elements where I was pushing things that really weren't on anyone's agenda really, apart from in some book I'd read. And that, you know, my oldest, she's been a guinea pig, really, I'm sure all our oldest children are.
So I know she was the first one out of all my children who ever attempted a written narration. And I can remember it so vividly, the tears, oh my goodness, I was like, whoa, okay. And learning a big lesson there, because I started her trying to get her to do a written narration because she was a particular age and I'd read that that was the right age to start it. But I wasn't really reading her, and the stage she was at and what she was ready for. And in the end, I left it a whole year. I just was like, I don't want tears, this is crazy. I left it a whole year and reintroduced it, and she thrived and I've still got folders and folders of these beautiful written narrations.
And yeah, it's just, I think it's you know, a big lesson from my younger years is learning to read my children and assess where they're at. Not just follow what somebody else has said that I'm supposed to do. And yeah, so. Poor Nia. She's... I'd like to say sorry about the whole thing... I'm sorry i made you do that.
J -
I think we all have. We could start the first child counseling fun, you know?
L -
Absolutely. Therapy fund. Yep.
J -
So now, your kids are older, what are you currently focusing on, or what are your goals for how you're educating them today?
L -
So, my older two children, so, in the UK, our kids do national exams at 16 ??? And you could do them at home, but it's basically kind of studying a syllabus and then taking the exam. And so, my older two children opted to take those in a small academy in our city. So they actually were home educated full time up until the age of fourteen, fifteen, and then they both went to do those. So, my older one now is in ... obviously, they're all at home now, aren’t they?
J -
Yeah. Well, yeah.
L -
So I currently have all four at home. They're all studying at home again. Which I'm actually really enjoying. But Nia is kind of pre-college classes, and which, yeah. I mean, the system is so different here, I don't need to go into it deeper, you can Google it.
But, so, I've got two full time at home, home educating now. And really, the goals have never particularly shifted in the sense of, keeping this wide open space for my kids to learn and to, you know, observe and absolve their surroundings that they're in, their environment they're in, to read great books, to establish their voice out of that reading and that learning. And the different seasons of the year, we focus on different things. We live on a park but literally our front garden is a hedge between our garden and a city park. So, the nature study aspect is in our yard 24/7, there's always... there are foxes at night, there are squirrels and birds and everything in the day.
So, we are constantly, you know, observing nature and recording and taking pictures. So that's always a rhythm of our life. And, but yeah, so my eldest, who's at home, is 11. So he is just, he is a writer and loves his... ever since he could, he's wanted to write books and screenplays. So he's just shifted from, really shifted into written narrations. And all my other children started by writing paragraphs and you know, just kind of worked their way up. He, this week, produced a two-page epic written narration on David Livingston. And I was like, whoa! What is this? You are a different child.
So I'm learning again, you know, like somebody who he just wanted to write. He just went for it. And seeing these skills in him and wanting to hone those skills and develop his voice in his writing is just really wonderful. And embracing that. My youngest is, this year, started a theatre class and she's learning all about music and dance and just trying to look at their personalities and see what do they need this year?
But our goals at home, and our rhythms at home, are very much around, you know, good books and music and art and conversation and narration and recording and, yeah. It's great. i mean, we have the same morning rhythm that we've had for twelve, thirteen years. And, it's great. The time shifts, you know, get a bit later now and again.
J -
Yeah. Yeah, people like to start sleeping in as they get older, I've noticed.
L -
Yes. They do. And at the moment, everyone's sleeping much later. Everyone knows what to do, they know what to grab, and we sit and we begin our day the same way. And this is security in that and such freedom in that, it's wonderful.
J -
Oh yes, yes. Children thrive on that. And I love that too, about this way of living, is that the routines and rhythms of our lives really don't change that much as they get older.
L -
No. They don't.
J -
I don't have to reinvent the wheel every year.
L -
Yeah. And people ask me all the time about, I guess what in the states you call high school, which is, again, it's different for us. And also, what people have to remember in Charlotte Mason's day, you know, it would've been, people would have been in the work force by thirty. So, when we talk about, you know, Charlotte Mason high school, it wasn't really a thing for thinking seventeen, eighteen. People were getting married off... and you were becoming a governess yourself. And, but really, what I always say, it's the same, it's just, you know, more advanced and bigger books, and greater language, and higher goals. And you just do more of the same.
Again, it's probably very simplified, but it's worked in our house.
J -
I agree, yeah. That's how it is here too. And I think we can get a little stressed out in high school, because the way it is organized here in the states. And we have to do all these things or our kid's not gonna get into college, and you know.
L -
Aye, sure.
J -
All of that kind of pressure, but really, you know, I've noticed with my kids, like, that the skill of self-educating and the skill of narrating will carry them so far in college.
L -
Yes.Yeah.
J -
They don't have to master how to learn to take, you know, multiple choice tests for... All these things, you know, like, the critical thinking skills they've developed through this kind of learning will translate into something easy, like that kind of learning. Unfortunately that they have to do at big schools.
Yeah, so, I know we've touched on a little bit about, kind of, overwhelm and that kind of thing. But is there something that you would just specifically say to encourage a mom who is wanting to implement Charlotte Mason's philosophy, but feels, just, completely overwhelmed at all the information and all the ideas that are involved with it?
L -
Yeah, I think, I mean, if anybody's feeling overwhelmed, it's generally a sign that something's wrong. You know, something is not in the right place. Your expectations are too high. You've tried to take too much information. I think the power for me, of the longevity and passion for it, as well, I honestly, you know, this many on, I am just as passionate as implementing, our implementing the philosophy as I was all those years ago.
And i think that's because I've kept it fresh, you know. I'm learning. I'm reading. I'm, you know, watching and observing my children, and just thriving in seeing them grow and learn. I think if a young mother is overwhelmed, you know, my message to them always, is again, like I said earlier, these are your golden years. You don't actually need to be doing much at all. And you know, gather some wonderful books, and go outside as much as possible. Read aloud. Read poetry. Read wonderful books. And then let them play. And while they're playing and destroying the house, you can sit and read.
I think a conversation with somebody may be a little bit further on than you, is quite a good thing to do as well. And just to, you know, we have to be really careful, again, because we're in this super connected world. We have to be really careful about the voices that we allow into our life. And all the scrolling that we do. And I think, if people are more, if you're kind of anxious person, or you're likely to feel overwhelmed, I would very much limit what you read and what you're seeing and who you're listening to. And I...
J -
Yeah, that's great advice.
L -
And I would go to one wise voice. One or two wise voices. There are many wonderful Charlotte Mason communities around the world. You know, either in real life or online. We have one here in the UK that started a few years ago with 12 people in the Facebook group. And it's not one and half thousand parents on there. And just within the UK.
And, we find that a place where, you know, educators can just, mothers and fathers, can reach out and just start feeling a bit of well, can you help me find this, you know. Or what do I do in this situation. So I think overwhelm is definitely kind of an alarm bell to me. It's like, what's going on.
J -
Yeah.
L -
Minimize the voices, find someone wise to speak to, and just press pause on whatever you're trying to do, because it's obviously not working. Yeah.
J -
And I notice too, sometimes, the overwhelm is with me, personally, and my own emotions, my own fears, my own stresses of things that are happening in my life. And I've nothing actually to do with what we're doing at school.
L -
That's true. That is true, Julie, and I think if I ever felt overwhelmed, it's generally because things like housework or, you know, I'm not on top of everything else I want to be doing, therefore, sometimes, homeschooling feels like I'm inconvenienced because you've got so much else... you have to shift your priorities and get yourself... And I think, you know, the best homeschooling days, for me, are when other things are a little bit more organized. You know, I'm not saying obsessively organize, but, you know, I pull the meat out from the freezer that morning so I know what I'm gonna cook for dinner. Or, you know, I've done the dishes the night before. Just some little things like that. Just kind of clear your mind and help you do that read aloud without stopping to look at your phone or something to think, you know, whatever it is.
Yeah, you're right, I think we often bring it on from other situations in our life.
J -
Yeah, and it, for me too, just, I think, with this kind of way of educating, the fruit sometimes takes a while to grow, right?
L -
Yes. Absolutely.
J -
So, if you're used to educating in a way where they answer back the questions, and you can check 'em off, and you're like, oh, my kid learned today cause they got all of these things right. And then you're going to this, where, it takes my kids, anyway, I've seen the growth happens over months, not days.
L -
Oh yeah, absolutely.
J -
And so, it's, I mean I still even struggle with this and here, we're like fifteen. Of, oh my goodness, they're not getting this. They don't understand this. We're... and I get overwhelmed by that fear of, there's gonna be... they're gonna miss something, they're gonna understand this, or they're not gonna be successful. Like, or I'm failing someone. And I can get all worked up in that if I let myself go down that dark pit, right? Of, no, then I have to remind myself. Look back at these kids, right? And they didn't get that right away, or, I can go back and I'll look through like their copy workbooks, right? Where it was just terrible.
When my kids were younger, now their handwriting's beautiful, you know? Or their narrations and things like that, just to encourage myself to go, no, trust the process. Trust the process.
L -
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and that's so important. I think that... and it also depends on what you're looking for as fruitfulness. You know, what you're looking for is results. I think if a child, you know, pays attention and listens to a chapter of a book, and actually and does listen. You know, again, that's a tick for you. You know, that's good, tick the both of you, you're like, they've paid attention. And, you know, they're narrating, or remembering something. And yet, you write some of the big moments of, oh, it's finally going in. That can take a long time.
I remember first wanting connections when... in Charlotte Mason's books about this science of relations, and where children begin to make connections. I remember my son climbing to... we were hiking somewhere, and he was on top of a hill. And he shouted ??? he says, look, look, look over there. He looks at a Constable painting and it was this beautiful farm view. And it did, it looked just like a Constable painting, we'd just been studying him. And he must've been five or six. And that kind of... he was looking at something in nature and he connected with something he'd been looking at. You know, a picture study. And this kind of alarm bell, this positive alarm bell, oh, this is what she meant by those connections. Or suddenly a poetry... a poem comes to mind. Or they're reading a story and they remember a quote from Shakespeare that connects with the story they're reading. All those kind of things do take time. But they are amazing. And I think our friend Julie Bogart calls them paydays. I love that she calls them that. Cause you know, we don't get paid...
J -
Yeah, right.
L -
But when our kids make those connections, it's like "cha-ching!"... I got something. We did it.
J -
Yes, and I really try to write... I call those wins, and I really try...
L -
Yes, I call them wins too.
J -
To write them down every week. Because it's so easy to forget those. And those are just these golden moments where you see this kind of living philosophy take root in a child's life. Like, just this week, we were reading Taming of the Shrew, and we're also reading our Island story. And so we had kind of a couple weeks ago, finished up the chapters on Queen Elizabeth. And then, you know, my daughter's giving this narration on Taming of the Shrew, but she was calling Kathryn Queen Elizabeth, like she was mixing up the two of them.
L -
Yeah.
J -
And I was like, no wait, no that's not right. But then I was like, well, you know what? She kind of has a point, like, she had all these suitors, right? And she didn't wanna be with them, and I'm like, I wonder if Shakespeare modeled that after her. Like, and I was... then I started doing all this research, and it said, you know, but like... she made that connection... I mean, a seven-year-old making connections of Shakespeare, and like... I mean that's...
L -
Yeah.
J -
You know...
L -
Thinking. It is. And that's what Charlotte Mason talks about, is higher thinking. It's that, they are capable of that. You know, we had similar situation with my nine-year-old. We mixed up Florence Nightingale with Elizabeth Frye. And we were both doing it at the same time. I even did it. And she spotted it before I did. I was kind of help, just narrating a little bit as well. I do, sometimes. And she said, no, no, no, no, that... you're talking about Florence Nightingale. I said, no I'm not. And so she got... like look. I was like oh, yeah. Very similar. Beginning's to life.
But those kind of moments are just so rewarding. They are amazing.
J -
Yeah, so what you're thinking of, I just went and grabbed this off my shelf. In A Charlotte Mason Companion, by Karen Andreola, she talks about that...
L -
Yes. My favorite.
J -
I love her. The sights of relations, and I'm just gonna read this little bit here, but it says, "The conventional system of education prides itself in what it covers. They will all be covered on the test, says the classroom teacher. Confused and concerned mothers have written me, saying they believe in what Charlotte says, but I won't be covering everything the schools cover. Calm yourself, the system tells them, we'll cover everything. It's all right here in the outline chapters of these textbooks. What can be seen all the little information here on this, a smattering of information there on that. With what Charlotte called an infestation of testing. The goal of covering material for tests should not be allowed to get in the way of relations being made with God, man, and the universe. Rather than feeling it is our duty to pass children through a system, it should be our duty to ask ourselves how our children can acquire knowledge. If we desire our children to acquire personal knowledge of God, other people and themselves and things, we accomplish this by letting the children fill in the "holes". We can't teach them everything. What can we do? We can expand their horizons with a wide range of interests and then practice the fine art of education. The art of standing aside to let a child develop the relations proper to him. It is needless to worry about holes if we believe that education consists in the establishment of relations."
L -
Yeah. So good.
J -
Yeah. Especially, I feel like, with kinda, this time that we're in now, and everyone's kind of at home doing some sort of school, you know? It would be very easy to go, wait, am I covering enough? Am I doing this... well, they're wanting this and this grade, cause now that you're talking with your neighbors about what they're covering in fourth grade, you know?
L -
Yeah.
J -
We can't, we can never teach it all, right? But we're teaching them to, with a wide variety of interests, to you know, have the...
L -
Absolutely. Yes. Yes, so important.
J -
And I think, I think, yeah you're right, that overwhelm consists of kind of like, I feel like, with them, you know, Peter, when he was walking on water to Jesus, and he starts looking at the storm, that's when he sinks, right? And if you're feeling overwhelmed, I feel like, you're taking your eyes, you know, off of... Jesus, oftentimes, it happens in my life, that also taking my eyes off my children. And then this person's going back to what you were saying with that...
L -
That's right.
J -
That first principle there. Alright, so, I know this is gonna... very hard question. But, do you have a Charlotte Mason quote, a favorite, that you'd like to share with us? I know it's hard to pick a favorite.
L -
Oh yeah, I don't really have a favorite. I can tell you one or two that I like. I do love, I'm just, I have a couple of books in front of me here. But I tell you what i love that my friend had this carved into some wood for me. The one that says, it may be that the soles of old children are waiting for the call of knowledge to awaken them to delightful living. I love that one so much, it's just beautiful.
And, but, one that I find particularly helpful. I mean, let me say, quote, it's from one of her books. I mean, you could quote the whole thing's, couldn't you? This particular one, I've been... I'm studying volume three again, School Education...
J -
Hey, that's what I'm doing in my book club too.
L -
Ah, great. So, on page 29, for anybody who has the pink book, she talks about self confidence, and this really links with a lot about what we've talked about as well, and it's in the whole chapter on masterly inactivity, which is one of my favorite concepts. And she...
J -
Can you make, I think there might be some people who don't know what that means. Would you mind giving us a textbook definition of that?
L -
Sure. Yes, so... masterly inactivity is the art of standing back and allowing your child to learn, to narrate, to observe information, to observe without interference. Without getting in the way. I have many different ways of explaining this, which I won't go into now, but, lots of different visual things that I use, but, it really is. Charlotte Mason talks about not, you know, not talking too much or asking too many questions, not bothering the children, but standing back.
J -
Which is, honestly, so hard.
L -
It... I think I found it...
J -
It's gotten easier, but at first, it was really hard for me.
L -
Yeah, yeah. Depending on what your personality's like, depending, I think, different people struggle with this more than others. But I think when you understand masterly inactivity, you study and you really grasp it, then you kinda go, oh, actually, I'm being really unhelpful by getting in the way.
J -
Yes.
L -
This...
J -
And a hindrance.
L -
Right. So this particular part that I love, is she talks about the confidence of the parent, which is something that is huge for me. And I think I, you know, I talk about this a lot. And she talks about self-confidence, and she says, the next element is confidence. Parents should trust themselves more. Everything is not done by restless endeavor. The mere blessed fact of the parental relationship and of that authority which belongs to it, by rights, and by nature, acts upon the children as do sunshine and shower or a seed in soil.
I think it's so, so lovely, I mean, she uses nature and food all the time, doesn't she, in her illustrations?
J -
Yes.
L -
And she goes on to talk about the anxious parent and the ??? parent, but that section there, I just, I also found it so real, so relatable. You know, here it is 1905, and she's writing stuff that I'm reading, going, yeah, I can relate to that today. Which is quite a gift really. You know, it's amazing.
But it's because it's human nature. It's human nature for a parent to fuss and to speak too much and to bother a child too much. But she's basically saying, if you stand back, and you're confident in doing that, the power of that is like sunshine and rain on a flower. And it's a very, I often describe the Charlotte Mason philosophy as this upside down, inside out education, you know, way of education. Because some of it just is, it's a complete opposite to what we think. You know, the school classroom, the classic school classroom is set up for the teacher to spoon feed the child and tell them, this is what you need to learn and this will be the outcome.
But the philosophy here turns that on its head and says, here's a book, tell me what you heard. You know, tell me what you saw in that, and what did you think and what did you feel. And it's just so different, isn't it? So I think, yeah, I love that. I think the confidence and that, their idea that actually as parents, we should trust ourselves more. I think that's a really important notion.
J -
Yeah, it definitely goes back to kind of what we've been talking about... the discouragement, right? That when you can kind of trust yourself and trust this process, I feel like I just say that all the time. Like, just trust the process, trust the process.
L -
The process. Absolutely. Yeah.
J -
You know, and I think of, she, I can't remember where she says this, but she gives the example of, like, a parent talking about seeds, you know, and growing a little sapling, and then they're like, oh well I don't know if it's, I mean, putting a seed and going, oh, I don't know if it's sprouted roots yet. So then, you dig it up to check it. Well, then you just killed it, right?
L -
Yeah.
J -
But as parents, we feel the need to do that all the time.
L -
Yes. Yeah, I'm just gonna check if it's working.
J -
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, just gonna make sure we're on pace. Like everybody else in the neighborhood, so let's... oh yeah... and I'm just gonna ???
L -
Yes. So funny.
J -
Well, it's been so lovely to get to chat with you. So, can you just tell our readers where they can find you at?
L -
Yeah, I'm generally, I've used my name all over the internet, so Leah Boden. I also, my... any of my kind of teaching and training around the Charlotte Mason philosophy goes under the heading of Mother Ms. Mason. So, you can type Mother Ms. Mason into Google and you'll get my Instagram or my website. And yeah, my kinda tag line is "Helping People Find Their Freedom Within a Philosophy" so that's what I endeavor to do, really, through my speaking and writing and teaching.
J -
Now, are your courses available all the time? Or do you only run them...
L -
So, I have one course now. So just the one. And it's called Charlotte Mason Unboxed. And it encompasses everything, really. It's, yeah, it's available on Course Crafter, it's on my Instagram and everything. But, Charlotte Mason Boxed is a kind of all encompassing, all in one... it's more of a learning journey, so, I add to it all the time. So, if you signed up for it, you will get free updates. So, it's kind of a fun way of doing it. Yeah, I used to do a lot of courses on Facebook, but, yeah, I've taken... well, they still exist, but they're not... I'm kind of making them a lot more available... basically, Charlotte Mason Boxed is a course, so anybody can access it.
So... cause not everybody's a big fan of Facebook.
J -
Yeah, yeah.
L -
Yeah, so...
J -
Yeah, also, while you were reading her volume, it reminded me, did you... do you still have your recordings of you reading her volumes on Soundcloud? Does that still exist?
L -
So, I read most of Volume One on SoundCloud, and it... let me say, it does exist. But I don't know where it would be.
J -
I actually listened to you read all of it back in the day.
L -
Yeah. That was a long time... I am currently reading Volume Three on Instagram. I've got three chapter in, and I've been reading on Instagram Story, and realized it's putting into the highlights. And it takes up a lot of room. I'm kind of regretting that I started it that way. I kind of sometimes have these great ideas, and to help people get into the books. Cause people get so intimidated by them, and I've always wanted to help people like, make things easier and make things simpler. So I thought, oh, I'm just gonna read it aloud. But it takes a long time.
So, but, what I have, I don't know if you've discovered them yet. They're all on Libravox, people, somebody started...
J -
Yes, someone just told me that.
L -
Yes.
J -
But are they as lovely as you are when they're reading?
L -
They're not British....???
I know, one day, when I'm not home educating my own children, I may, maybe I'll read aloud.
J -
Okay. Okay, that'd be fantastic. Well, I'll link to the SoundCloud of Volume One, if I can find that.
L -
Yeah, definitely.
J -
That was really helpful.
L -
Yes. I do...
J -
And your own ??? notes, are they on YouTube?
L -
They are, yeah. Cause the old one... so I've got stuff, yeah, I mean, a lot of what I do now kind of day to day, is on my Instagram page, Mother Ms. Mason. And I've got whole stories on how to make ??? and Q and A's... yeah. It seems to be where a lot of people mostly gather is... and I do all that on Facebook too, but, just kind of double it up. But really, Instagram is the place to find me. But yeah. Yeah. Lots of stuff on there.
I'm just... I'm always just trying to help people grasp it for themselves and put it into practice everyday in their homes. And that's my goal.
J -
Yes. Yes. You do such a fantastic job with that.
L -
Thank you, Julie.
J -
I really appreciate your voice and the homeschooling community, specifically the Charlotte Mason community, because I do feel like you do what your tagline says. And that is breathe freedom into this philosophy. And show people the beauty of it, and the simplicity of it.
L -
Thank you. Yeah.
J -
And I really do appreciate that. So thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us today.
L -
It has been my pleasure. I'm glad we finally got round to doing it.
J -
Yeah.
L -
I'm so sad that we didn't get to do it in Ambleside together, but still...
J -
On my bucket list, right? Alright, thanks, Leah. Yeah.
L -
My pleasure.
J -
Sounds good.
Thank you for joining us today on the Charlotte Mason Show. I'm your host, Julie Ross, and I would love to meet you in 2020. I will be at all seven Great Homeschool Conventions, speaking as part of their Charlotte Mason track. Go to greathomeschoolconventions.com to find one near you.
If you want more information on what was shared in today's podcast, go to homeschooling.mom for the show notes. Also, don't forget to subscribe to this podcast in iTunes or Google Play so you never miss an episode. Until next time.
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