HS #222 — Kris Camealy — The Art of Surrender
Show Notes:
DESCRIPTION:
We’re talking today about the beautiful yet (oh so) hard topic of surrender. Homeschooling, parenting, following Christ all requires great-gobs of surrender, and there’s no one I’d rather talk it through with than Kris Camealy.
TODAY’S GUEST:
Kris Camealy is a sequin-wearing, homeschooling mother of four. She is passionate about Jesus, people and words. Her favorite room in the house is the kitchen, and she’s been known to take gratuitous pictures of her culinary creations, causing mouths to water all across Instagram. Kris is the author of, Come, Lord Jesus: The Weight of Waiting and Holey, Wholly, Holy: A Lenten Journey of Refinement,. Her latest book, Everything Is Yours: How Giving God Your Whole Heart Changes Your Whole Life, just released this month.
RESOURCES:
Everything Is Yours: How Giving God Your Whole Heart Changes Your Whole Life by Kris Camealy
QUOTES:
“Our selfish tendencies don’t lend themselves well to what parents often refer to as “first-time obedience.” When we feel God tugging at something we’re holding on to, rarely is our first reaction to eagerly set it on the altar and back away. More likely, we skirt the issue, hedge our bets and argue our case in hopes He will relent and let us keep our “stuff.” When God whispers the call to the altar into our hearts, we clench our fists tighter and fret over what it will mean to lay the thing down. We would do well to live as Corrie Ten Boom learned to—open handed, “Hold everything in your hands lightly, otherwise it hurts when God pries your fingers open.” This is what it means to become a “living sacrifice” to always be ready to surrender whatever God asks of us.” (pg 28)
CONNECT WITH:
Instagram: http://instagram.com/kriscamealy
Facebook: http://facebook.com/krisecamealy
Website: http://kriscamealy.com
Show Transcript:
HS EP 222 Kris Camealy
Wendy -
Welcome to the Homeschool Solutions podcast, brought to you by Sonlight Curriculum, and homeschooling.mom. I'm your host, Wendy Speake. Here on the show every week, you'll get to listen in on some great conversations with wonderful guests, all designed to equip us as homeschooling moms. And then once a month, we'll be opening up the Bible together, applying God's Word to our long, blessed, but often challenging days.
It is my hope that as we gather together in this space, we will encourage one another with some practical, Biblical solutions. I'm so glad you're here. Before we start the show, I'd like to thank our sponsor, Sonlight Curriculum. Complete homeschool curriculum you're guaranteed to love.
And now, enjoy the show.
Well, it is always fun for me to introduce you to someone I admire or someone that I like. And Kris Camealy is both, someone I like and someone I admire. I met Kris originally because we were both authors. We were in some more circles of friends and we met, I think through a writer's conference first. And then joined a Mastermind group together and we've gotten to know one another over the years. But we've also been shoulder to shoulder at the same homeschool conventions. So that's also very special.
As I mentioned, I really like her. But today, you'll be able to discover why I admire her as well. She is a wonderful teacher, a feeler, a deep feeler, and a thoughtful communicator. Kris is the author of two books. First, she had written Holy, Holy, Holy, A Lenten Journey Through Refinement. And then she followed it up a devotional for advent. And that's called Come Lord Jesus, The Weight of Waiting, and both are wonderful.
However, she just last week launched a new book that I thought would be a great conversation starter for us. Because it's about the topic of surrender and isn't there so much surrendering required to be a homeschool mom? I sure think so. So, this most recent book is called Everything Is Yours, How Giving God Your Whole Heart Changes Your Whole Life. And I love the title and I love the conversation. Before we even have it, I know it's going to bless me and bless you.
Kris is a beautiful writer. She's always sharing fabulous quotes from literature on social media, alongside photos of her homemade culinary creations. She is passionate about Jesus and women and words and education. Basically, she's the total package and one of my favorite people. And I'm excited to share her with you today.
So thank you for tuning in to our conversation today, about those difficult, beautiful, albeit, necessary discipline of surrender. Kris, I'm so glad that you're joining us today. Welcome to the Homeschool Solutions Show.
Kris -
Thank you so much. I'm excited to have a chance to chat with you today.
Wendy -
Yeah, it's always fun when we're able to get together. So, I thought it would be fun to have you just start things off by telling us a little bit about you and your family.
Kris -
Sure. I have four kids who I homeschool. My oldest is 16 and then there's a 14-year-old, a 12-year-old, and a ten-year-old. And my older two are boys and my younger two are girls, so we have all the flavors. And it is wild. It's wild times. We live in the middle of Ohio and I've been married to my high school sweetheart for 20 years.
Wendy -
Oh, cool.
Kris -
So very much in midlife, you know?
Wendy -
Yeah. Absolutely. Aren't we, gosh, we are in the middle of it all. Right? So, I'd love to hear about how you made this decision to homeschool. I always think that those stories are so fun and they keep me remembering why I made the decision as well. So, tell us a little bit about what your homeschool journey has looked like.
Kris -
Yeah, I never saw myself doing it. I grew up in and out of public school and private school, so homeschooling isn't in my personal background. My mom was a public-school teacher and so, I spent a lot of time in traditional school environments. But when I had my oldest, my first baby, when it was getting closer to time where he would need to go to, like, preschool or kindergarten, something about it just didn't sit right with me. To... I was watching neighbors, like, put their little tiny kids on the school bus, and I... something... I just couldn't do it. I was like, something... this isn't for us. I don't think we're supposed to do this.
And we sort of tested the waters his preschool year. We sent him to our church preschool for one year. And when that year was finished, we were like, yeah, this isn't how we're gonna do this. And we've been homeschooling ever since and he is now 16, he's my oldest, and every year, we kind of approach it from kind of like year to year. So, we've never said, we're gonna homeschool until everyone graduates or anything like that. We kind of just take it year by year. And even just last year, I offered my kids, you know, do you guys want to keep doing this? Or do you think you wanna go to a traditional school building and all of that? And they want to homeschool. So now, like, we're just basically in it until somebody says, I can't do this anymore. And that might be me or it might be them. I don't know.
Wendy -
Well, it sounds like you guys are committed in a non-committal way, I mean...
Kris -
Yeah, it's ...
Wendy -
I know you've caught the vision. And I know that you're there for one another doing the learning and doing life together. So, you're as committed as committed can be and still holding things with open hands, and I just think that's so much of how we need to live our life in every aspect of life.
Kris -
So, I thought about it ??? terms. But that is what it is. It's just kind of like trusting that year by year, God's gonna tell us what we're supposed to be doing. And we just trust that.
Wendy -
Yes. Absolutely. And I think that's how we're supposed to hold on to our life. In all the different arenas, you know? Holding on, okay, Lord, this is the way that I feel you telling me to walk. So, I'm gonna walk. But if you want me to pivot, then You'll have to say, to the left, to the right, go this way, go that... don't do that. So, I wanna live that way with, as I call it, open hands, you know? Just not holding too tightly.
And I think that that's, even right there, an immediate way we can transition into this topic of surrender. Is a willingness, even if we feel like we are doing what the Lord has called us to, man, just like the Lord to say, okay this is where I had planted you, and now I'm moving you. This is what I've given you, and now I'm asking you to give it up. There are so many areas in our life where we are constantly learning surrender.
But as a homeschooling mom, I wanted to ask you to speak into this idea of surrender. Where it intersects our homeschooling lives. There's so much laying down our lives in order to just practically do this. What are some areas that you have had to grow in your understanding of what the Lord has called you to do in terms of surrender?
Kris -
Yeah, oh my gosh, I think the first one that immediately comes to mind is my own desires. You know, my own plans. You don't necessarily get to do things the way you want to do them when you're homeschooling. My schedule isn't really fully my own because... especially as my kids are getting older, you know, the demands of high school are way different than they are of elementary school work. And so, the things that are required of my sons, who are teenagers, are things that I have to participate in whether I want to or not, you know?
So, I'm constantly having to surrender my kind of vision for what I want our days to look like, and kind of roll with it. And like you said, hold all of the days open-handed, and that's always the first one that comes to mind, is just that surrendering my own selfishness for what do I wanna do versus what do I need to do and what do my kids need from me? You know?
Wendy -
Yes, that's definitely... I feel like, as they get older, I think my goal has been both in parenting and then specifically in homeschooling, my goal is to work myself out of a job. So, I remember, oh goodness, what... even early on, what activities, what learning games, what curriculum pieces, call it what you may, which things can they do that are independent of me.
And so when they were very little, even before they could read, there were games they could play on their own. There were audiobooks they could listen to, there were things that they could do, and so maybe there was one piece of curriculum... I always call it piece of curriculum... one thing that they could do. And then as they get older, there's more, and there's more and by the time they get to sixth grade, there are only a couple of subjects that I'm really engaging with them over daily. And most of it is independent. And maybe there'll be some lessons, but on the daily, they can do a lot of it.
And so, I was just getting to the point in our family, because I was homeschooling too and I sent our youngest to a local private school, it just fit him so perfectly. His needs for constant social, constant activities. He just wears the rest of us out, honestly. And it was just a wonderful environment for him.
Kris -
I could see that and I share your philosophy because the last... last year, we started my oldest... it was his freshman year of high school, and we started him in a curriculum that is student-led. And it was the best decision we could have made.
Wendy -
Well, what I learned about surrender in all of that was when I needed to bring Asher, my youngest, home, in just the last few weeks, he needed my full attention. And I realized, I had not had to give hours of my homeschool day. I mean, just big chunks of it, to teaching in a few years, because the older kids had been trained to do a lot of things independently. But also, there were a couple of curriculum pieces that this child had some holes on, and I really needed to circle back and double down on them.
And I already had, on my literal calendar, full schedules for me, outside of homeschooling. And, so I had to literally surrender, cancel, and repurpose my will. Surrender my will and repurpose my time, maybe, for what the Lord had willed. And it's been painful. I don't think I've been unkind, I don't think that my kid sees me... I have had to have... I've had to stop myself from saying things like, do you not see what I'm doing for you? You know, I had to bite my tongue, hold my thoughts captive, and just take it to the Lord, and say God if You led me here, then I'm gonna trust You in this and I'm going to surrender what I thought these months were gonna look like. Because You've led me to do something different. That's been my big lesson these days, about surrender in the homeschool.
Kris -
Yeah. I mean, I think that's one that is just as... it keeps going. Like, that's a lesson I keep learning and it's a place where I will repeatedly have to surrender. It's... I feel like, you know, I always want surrender to be like, I've done it now! I don't have to do it again. I learned that. You know?
Wendy -
Yes.
Kris -
What I keep finding is that you know, God just keeps taking me to new places. And sometimes those places look a lot like a place that you've been before, but there's still something new that He's doing there. And I think that what you're talking about is the place that we just get to visit repeatedly.
Wendy -
Yeah, I think all the big, big lessons that the Lord wants us to, you know, loving the unlovable. Or the unlovely, you know? That's one of those big ones that, okay Lord, You've really taught me that. And then all of a sudden, I'm being unloving to someone. What's the lesson? Where's that coming from? It's like, oh, that's right.
And it's almost like an onion that has all these layers. But you know what happens when you start peeling back layers, right? Of a real onion? There's tears. It makes you cry, and I know that I might be stretching this analogy a little bit, but having to go deeper and deeper with some of these layers of our character refinement, in our Biblical refinement, causes tears.
Kris -
Yeah. It's so hard.
Wendy -
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Well, those are a couple of ways that we see it right there in our homeschool, but these are lessons for life. Kris, can you tell us, why, why has this become one of the main messages you're talking about? It's gotta be a message in your life that you're living in big ways. But, could you just share with us what the Lord's been teaching you about this need to surrender?
Kris -
Yeah, you know, it's funny. I am a firm believer that you don't get to write about anything that you haven't lived. Particularly, when we're talking about nonfiction, obviously fiction is a different genre and you can do all kinds of make-believe in there. But I feel like when God calls you to write something that is true in the sense of, you've experienced it, then you have to have lived it. You have to have experienced it. And surrender is like, never would have been a topic that I would have picked, you know? If somebody said, what would you like to write about? This would not have made the top ten.
But, it is the place where I just keep finding myself. And this particular book took five years to become a book. It was five years of a lot of wrestling and struggling, really, with the message and with the Lord over it. And the kind of... I had this weird like... it was a desire to write it but, more, almost like a compulsion. It just wouldn't leave me alone. And so, you know, now it's there. I just had to walk through that. And even just the act of writing it, I think, was a big act of surrender for me.
Wendy -
Yes, I hear that. Absolutely. And what are some of the stories in it that are your stories of surrender that you share?
Kris -
Oh, gosh. One of my favorites is related to the retreat that I host. So, I host a yearly women's retreat here in Ohio. And it's called Refine the Retreat. And that entire event was born out of the Lord sort of redirecting my personal desires for a private, solo retreat to crafting something and setting it... a space for other women to come and have a retreat. Which, if you've ever done anything like that, you know that then it's not actually a retreat for you, because you're working.
Wendy -
Yeah, absolutely. It sounds very very very exhausting.
Kris -
Right? So, it's a ton of work. But it's been so amazing and I'm in my fifth year of hosting it, and it's been so amazing to see how God takes my willingness to say yes, okay, I'll do this, and He just does unbelievable things with it. And with the space. And for the women who show up, and are really having their own surrender moment by saying yes to something that they don't even really know what is gonna happen.
And so, it's been deeply rewarding. But that's one of my favorite... it's become one of my favorite places where the Lord asked me to surrender because I know the fruit of it is always so good. And so surprising, every time.
Wendy -
That's wonderful. I'm, right now, leading my sixth annual forty-day sugar fast. And thousands of women sign up online for this every year, and I've finally come to the place where I understand that this is not comfortable from... I mean, I've known it wasn't comfortable, but what I realized is, I am leading others in fasting more than I'm fasting. I mean, I'm fasting. ??? to your experience with leading a retreat. You wanted it because you needed a retreat. But the Lord called you to do something beyond that. I needed to fast, but what the Lord did was, He called me to lead others to fast. And it becomes, really, the most exhausting online season every year for me.
Kris -
Oh, yeah.
Wendy -
I have to follow the forty-day sugar fast with the forty ??? to sort of heal afterwards. Because there's so much pouring out. And I think that the main takeaway... I mean, cause not everybody that's listening is hosting retreats and leading people in activities online like this. But, God's gonna call us to things that are way beyond our comfort or ability. And it's exhausting to say yes.
And I'm reminded of Jesus in the garden before going to the cross. I mean it is the reason why the Lord sent His Son, right? And Jesus, fully God and fully man, knew the will of the Father. And there was still the, if there's any other way... if there's any other way to do what You've sent me to do, other than what I'm about to do... ah, it makes me wanna tear up... any way, God. Like, he understands that we would like to say, if there's any other way, God, then homeschooling. If there's any other way than forgiving my husband again. If there's any other way than pushing through these uncomfortable relationships at church, can we just switch churches? But not my will, thine. Thine, then. I'll do it. I'll surrender. That's kind of the theme that I'm hearing there.
Kris -
Well, and one of the things that, you know, I've come to realize, and I know you've realized this too, and, through your sugar fast, but you realize it too as a homeschool parent, is that your surrender isn't really about you. You know? It is, and it isn't, because our lives are not our own. We don't belong to ourselves. We are... God plants us in community, and whether that community is big or small, or online, or in the flesh, He plants us in community and when we surrender, when we say yes, to whatever God is asking of us, there is a trickle effect that effects people, other people. Whether it's just your children, or your children and your spouse, or your co-op, or whatever that is, your surrender isn't contained in your life.
And, I think that's one of the, like the, hardest, most beautiful gifts of it, is that it does have an impact. And I think that you know, I mean, you look at Christ's own surrender was for the entire world. It wasn't about Him. It wasn't for just Him. He surrendered His entire life for the sake of the whole world. And I think that, in smaller ways, our own surrenders to God, God uses in the same kind of capacity. That it isn't just for you. Your sugar fast that you lead is for all of these women, and all of the people who participate, or impacted by it, and I see the same thing in retreat hosting. And we see the same thing in homeschooling our kids. The surrender to say yes, I will do this with them, rather than choose a different method. They're impacted by it and they, in turn, impact others because of their education.
Wendy -
Well, and so often, what I'm hearing you say, then, is, our surrender isn't about us.
Kris -
Yeah.
Wendy -
Then in... what a beautiful picture of homeschooling is, our surrender really is about them.
Kris -
Yeah.
Wendy -
Yeah. I think that the rich young ruler is such a picture of all of us.
Kris -
Yeah, I love this story. And the more I read it, the more I identify with it. There was a time when I read it and I just thought, well that guy's crazy. But, I love this story because the man had so much to lose, so to speak. And he received this message from Jesus and is grieved by the cost of discipleship. And, oh my gosh, I think that you know, this idea that this is a hard message is echoed in John chapter 6 when the disciples are... Jesus is talking to them about, it's the communion, He's talking about becoming... His body is of flesh and blood and they're supposed to take it. And one of the disciples says to Him, this is a hard message, who can receive it.
And I feel like this isn't exactly how this rich young ruler felt, that he heard this message and he was like, I don't know. I... that's so hard. And...
Wendy -
Yeah. And it's hard but too hard.
Kris -
It's sad.
Wendy -
Too hard.
Kris -
It's too hard. Yeah. And so, I just, I love that story because I feel like that is the most honest look at how we sometimes feel when Jesus says, you need to set this thing down or you need to open your hands and give me this, or whatever. I don't know how many times I kind of just go away sad, and feel like, I didn't wanna give that up. You know? I didn't wanna surrender that thing.
Wendy -
Yeah.
Kris -
It's so hard.
Wendy -
Yeah, absolutely. Me too. Is there something in your life right now that the Lord wants? That will require some surrender?
Kris -
Yeah, I think, you know, we're dealing with some hard things, you know, relationally, with some people that I think the Lord is asking me to surrender. And that's tricky. Because, well, it feels like, if I lay it down, is it gonna get resolved? You know? Don't I need to be working towards trying to resolve this? And, so there's a bit of a wrestle, I think, for me right now, in surrender over that. You know, do I... how... what does it look like to surrender that? What does it mean to take my hands off of that?
Wendy -
I love that. That, what does it take to take my hands off of that? And isn't that a picture of us holding on to our money? Or holding on to our free time? Or holding on to our lives? What is it gonna take for me to let go of that? And I think, I really wanna encourage those listening to just let yourself... ask yourself that question... what is the thing that you're holding on to? Whether it's relationships that aren't healthy. Or the way you want to spend your money or your time. Or... it can be my vision for what my kid's lives are gonna look like, what their maturity should look like, what their personalities, what their interests, how it should play out.
There are so many different things that He invites us to. Don't hold onto that like it's great wealth. Let go of that currency, whatever that form of currency is because true wealth is found when you follow Me. And Jesus said to follow Me you'll have to deny yourself. And isn't that another word for surrender? I'm gonna live with open hands. I'm gonna homeschool with open hands. I'm going to do marriage with open hands. I mean, you can't hug someone without open hands.
Kris -
Right?
Wendy -
Sit down my unhealthy addiction to my phone, with open hands. I'm going to surrender so that I can follow You, God. In whatever it is that You're calling me today.
Well, this has been a blessing to me, Kris. I was wondering if you would send us with just one more really good nugget and follow it up by praying for us?
Kris -
Yeah, I think, just as you were talking just now, I was thinking about the fact that you can't receive unless your hands are open. And so, if you, you know, when surrender feels hard, and it feels like we can't do it if you remember that... it's always for a purpose, and God always has something for us in it. At some... there's always a purpose. And even if we don't see it right away, it's there. But we can't fully receive from Him if we won't open our hands to Him.
So I'll just pray on that note. Father God, thank You so much for everybody who's listening. Thank You for Your Son. Thank You for the freedom that You give us when we surrender ourselves fully to You, that we live in that place of freedom. And You are so kind and so open and so ready and waiting, always, to receive, Lord. I pray that You would just show us what it means to live open-handed with all of the things that You have put in our hands. Whether it's our children, our jobs, our relationships, our marriages, everything that You have given us, help us to remember that it is a gift. It has come from You. And when and if You ask us to set it down, help us to be willing. And to trust You. And to know that You are looking at us with love. And that we are safe in that surrender to You. In Jesus' Name, Amen.
Wendy -
Amen. You just said something in that prayer, you said, show us, Lord, what it means to live open-handed with everything that You've put in our hands. What an interesting reminder that the things that we cling to so tightly are gifts from the Giver.
Kris -
Right.
Wendy -
But if the gift from the Giver becomes more to us than the Giver Who gave the gift, there is a problem there. So, help us to lay down the gifts if You, the Giver, have called us to. And give us the courage... encourage us to do that with the help of Your Holy Spirit. Amen to that.
Well, thank you, Kris. Friends, I hope that you will find Kris's book, Kris tell us the title, the best place to find it, and where we can connect with you online.
Kris -
Yes. It's called Everything Is Yours, How Giving God Your Whole Heart Changes Your Whole Life, and it will be available... it is available, on Amazon and hopefully, Barnes and Noble and other places where you find books.
Wendy -
Yes. Absolutely. And then how can we find you online? Where will we find you?
Kris -
I am most active, I would say, on Instagram. And it's @kriscamealy, just my name. And the same thing on Facebook and my website is the same. So, pretty easy to find.
Wendy -
Thank you so much. Thank you for being here. Thank you for being a friend to me, and a friend to homeschooling families. And everyone, I'm glad you were here to join us today, and I pray that you have a really blessed rest of your week.
What a privilege it is to have these conversations with you each week. You are so busy and I don't take it lightly that you tune in with me here for a weekly shot of encouragement. As a reminder, you can subscribe to the Homeschool Solutions podcast through Apple or Google Play. And your positive reviews always help other homeschool families find us online.
Before we say goodbye, I'd like to thank Sonlight Curriculum one more time. Not only do they support homeschool families, they are also big supporters of the Homeschool Solutions podcast. Another supporter is the Great Homeschool Conventions. I don't know if you've ever been to one, but I heartily endorse that you find one near you. Every year they host multiple conventions in various regions throughout the US. Find a location at greathomeschoolconventions.com. With dozens of incredible speakers, hundreds of curriculum exhibits, you will leave blessed, refreshed, helped, and encouraged. I will be in Texas, South Carolina, Ohio, and of course, my home state, California this year. I hope to see some of you there. Until next week, visit homeschooling.mom for blog posts to encourage and support you along the way. Remember Galatians 6 verse 9, let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap if we do not give up. That's a promise that I take to the bank every day, and I hope you do too.
This is Wendy Speake, and I look forward to chatting with you again next week.
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